The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

230 | [Q&A] AI Tools, Pricing, and Onboarding

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 230

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From AI tools and scope creep to finding your first clients and onboarding systems, whether you're just dreaming about starting a bookkeeping business or you're a few years in, there's something in here for you.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • How I use AI in my firm
  • Pricing, scope creep, and tough money conversations
  • Finding your first five clients
  • Onboarding process

Resources mentioned in this episode:

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Welcome everyone. this is our monthly live q and a for the entire community for students of BBA for non-students, for YouTube viewers. And I'm here to basically answer any question related to running your bookkeeping business. Um, whether that is client work or accounting concepts or mindset issues, pricing, anything and everything is on the table. I try to be an open book with everything that I've learned, and I'm just here to share that with you all A little announcement. Here we are opening up our bookkeeping Biz workshops, which lately have only been happening once a year and may only happen once this year as well. It's three days of live teaching where if you are in the early stages of your bookkeeping business, or you are dreaming about starting a bookkeeping business, early stages, meaning one to three years. I have people that have been in business for multiple years and come to these workshops and learn things and get reignited, and reenergized and learn a few little tips and tricks. On their tech stack and all those things, and it's a great time to come and get more questions answered. So these q and as are only once a month, but during the live workshops I am answering questions for three days in a row as well as teaching. And they're only $37. So I would love to have you there. If you're interested, go to ambitious bookkeeper.com/workshops. And you can get your ticket there. If you're subscribed to your, to our email list, you've probably been getting emails, so I definitely recommend joining from there. If you've been on the wait list for the workshops, you have special email coupon code waiting for you in your inbox, so definitely go check that out. Um, how do you utilize AI in your bookkeeping work? That's a really good question, Cole. So, right now the only time we really use AI in our bookkeeping work is when it's built into an actual software that we are paying for and already using. So, for instance, we use Xero. We are testing out the zero ai, auto bank reconciliation feature and things like that. On a few clients and pretty much on my own books. I've been testing it out just to see how it functions and how well we like it. So we're starting to implement that. We use AI in a lot more of non-financial bookkeeping work, if that makes sense. So anytime there's AI built into a software that we're already using that can make us more efficient, we try to do that. I'm very, like, I'm a stickler about like not putting, confidential information into any ai. So we mostly use it for marketing and stuff like that. And like I said, we will utilize the AI built into programs that are already watching out for our security. But it's also really important to look. Within that software's help, guidance or terms of service, wherever you can find the information about what type of AI they're using. Are they using an open source ai and are they gonna be using your information that you're putting in there to learn for the broader network or just learning within? Your files, if that makes sense. So, for Xero, for example, I went down a rabbit hole to see like, how are they, like what are their, what is their stance on the AI and how is their model built? It's contained within each, client file. I don't know if it's at a point yet where it's learning across all of our clients within our client base, or if it's just like within each client file. It's kind of like isolated. So it's important to understand how the AI is functioning and the security there, because there's not really any regulations on it yet. And I've done a couple podcasts on this. With other people, that are more expert level in AI than I am. So definitely go back in the podcast archive towards the end of last year. There's a few episodes on that, so definitely listen to those. Carrie says, I'm dreaming. Awesome. Kelly says, hi Kelly. What is the best way to deal with scope creep? Recently I had to revisit my engagement letter with a client. Thankfully, they were receptive to my price increase. It was stressful though, so. One thing I, I can totally relate to this because we are like, we feel like we should be doing everything the client asks.'cause they need, it's stuff that needs to be done. Someone has to do it. So nine times out of 10, your client knows that they're out of. Scope and they're probably expecting you to say, Hey, I'm gonna add this to your invoice, or increase your scope. So I would try to remember that anytime you have to increase scope, like as a business owner, when I ask one of my service providers to do something extra, most of the time I'm highly aware that what I'm asking of my service provider is out of the regular scope, and so, I'm expecting them to be like, Hey. This is gonna cost extra. A lot of times I preempt that because I'm more aware of it and I'll be like, Hey, Abby, to my bill or whatever. And so not everybody has that foresight though, to do that. So I would just go into it assuming your client knows that it's out of scope, and that'll hopefully, mindset wise, make it a little bit easier for you to just have the conversation. And then just remember like one of the best pieces of advice I've heard over the years, and I think it was from like Brene Brown or something. Is, clear is kind so like, I just need to be clear with the client and that's perfectly fine to just be like, Hey, I'm happy to do this for you. This is just gonna be, you know, x, y, z amount of dollars. Or since I'm not sure how long this is gonna take, I'm just gonna charge you our firm hourly rate. Anything along those lines. So this is another. Piece of like the business that I would highly recommend using AI to help you formulate, the wording on that, especially if it's in an email or even if it's not in an email and you're gonna have a face-to-face conversation with it. You can practice verbally with chat GPT. So that might be a good option too. but yeah, see they were receptive to your price increase, so it's like they probably knew, Ruhi says, how do you find your first five bookkeeping clients? What's the best way to price? Bookkeeping services. Okay. My first five clients I found on Upwork and I know that things have changed since I started my business like eight years ago, but Upwork is still a place that you can go, like where people are looking for a bookkeeper. The other, and for me that was a good fit because I'm an introvert and I was not, I also was not like going out to networking events and things like that 'cause I had ki babies at home. So, you have to decide on like what fits. Your personality and your season of life and try to find ways around that. So if you are able to go out and network and talk to people face to face, that is probably the most effective way to get your first five clients right now, in today's time, because people want to work with a human. So I would recommend just talking about what you do with as many people as possible, and ask for referrals. If you know people in business, you could just be like, Hey, do you happen to know of anyone that needs a bookkeeper? So you're not outright asking that person, but. They will keep you in mind. And then the more you show up to all these things or in all these spaces, people will start remembering you. So that would be my advice these days For your first five clients, you could still try Upwork. I know people are still successful with it, but it is a numbers game, so if you wanna get clients more quickly, doing face-to-face stuff is probably going to be a little bit better, or doing some sort of a referral partnership with a CPA, with a banker, with insurance agents, things like that. and the best way to price your services. That's kind of a loaded question. I have a whole module inside of my program about pricing because it's not that straightforward and it takes some, it's like an art. So, it really depends on, you know, the volume, the complexity, things like that. But as far as types like ways to price, you have packaged pricing, which is like flat fee. You have value pricing, which I'm sure you've heard a lot about. and then you have hourly pricing. So. There's lots of methodologies out there. We do a package flat fee pricing, but it also has, um. Like value pricing within that. So, yeah, I, I can't really go into it all on this, live stream because it's definitely a complex topic. but yeah, so. We prefer to do flat fee pricing. I will say I tried to do that from the very beginning and severely underpriced myself because I didn't really understand how much time things were gonna take, the complexity of what I was agreeing to and things like that. So that's where the. The art piece comes in and we've gotten it down to a science now because we work with within a niche and most of the clients that we work with have very similar needs and volumes. And so we're able to price pretty confidently. but that comes with time and experience. So honestly , Don't be afraid to charge hourly to begin with until you get your bearings. You're better off doing that than trying to figure out a package pricing and then losing money basically. okay. Diane says, related to scope creep, when clients get new loans, lines of credit, et cetera, do you increase their fees? I have one client who took out six lines of credit through QBO and didn't even mention it to me. In that case, I definitely would increase their fees. It kind of depends on the type of loan. So we have, a lot of, not a lot of clients, we have a handful of clients that will take out frequently. They will take out, Stripe, working Capital, PayPal, working capital, and Shopify working capital. Those are very simple loans that as long as we catch it, as soon as it happens and we can get a copy of the contract, we book the finance charge upfront and then Stripe and all those guys take a percentage of sales. And so we're not having to really like amortize alone, figure out the interest. Payment split. so that's a little easier. And for those, I don't, wouldn't necessarily increase the fee unless like it continues to snowball. but for that, it's more like, let's have a conversation of. Why you need to take out these lines of credit and what can I do to support you so that like I don't have to charge you as much and like we can work through this like, and I'd rather charge you for bringing value of like, let's work out a cashflow forecast. I don't know if that's in your wheelhouse, but that's something that I would talk to the client and be like, I wanna make sure that I'm offering as much support as possible. I'm going to increase your fee because you have more lines of credit, but more so because like I wanna be able to be more hands on and help you forecast your cash flow so you don't have to continue to take out these loans. Things like that you can really show your value with, but that's okay if you're not comfortable with that right now. But yeah, six lines of credit if you're trying to break out the interest payment. Or the payment principle and interest, on every month, that can be very cumbersome and you may not even have, like, we don't get access to a lot of the contracts and things like that. And so we've decided to on certain loans and certain clients either only reconcile them annually and wait till the end of the year to book all the interest or quarterly, depending on if we can get access to those, documents. Hopefully that helps. We definitely reevaluate fees and scope creep when people add a bank account, especially if there's a lot of activity to it. so we kind of look at those things as bank accounts as well. Cole says, how do you handle a client situation where they're likely to default on their business loan, having open conversations and it seems inevitable in two to three months unless something drastic happens. So, let me read the rest of your question. Would the bank continue to pay me as a bookkeeper? They are pretty large client and it would definitely impact my business if revenue if I was dropped. So, No, the bank is not going to continue to pay you as a bookkeeper. The bank is only concerned about getting paid back for their loan, and they have first rights to any debts most of the time. So, I would not count on someone else swooping in and paying your fee. it sounds like you're having candid conversations with them, but I would be very, like, I would be very like, stress it, a lot of like, I care about you and also like. Let's be real of what's going on. And so like the best thing that you can do right now is probably be looking for additional clients to replace that income if you truly think they're going to default and lose their business. There's other options though, too, like for clients. they may not have to go out of the business if they can like turn things around. So if you can be a part of helping them turn that around, there, there's huge value in that. I don't know what kind of relationship we have with the client. If they're even a client you want to maintain.'cause sometimes. I've found that clients that end up in these situations are generally not great to work with 'cause they're not great business owners and so they don't take our advice, they don't get us information we need. They go and get out a bunch of loans without talking to us and asking for help. They do a lot of things, impulsively. So those. Not always, but a lot of times those type of business owners aren't the best clients to have anyway. Even if they are paying you a lot, they're risky as you can see. So I would definitely work on replacing that client and see what you can do to help them, like create a cashflow forecast. Don't put in too much extra work if you're afraid they're not gonna be able to pay you. But, And continue to have those conversations with them of like, what is your plan? When are you drawing a line in the sand? Are you just gonna close down your business? That's probably better off because what happens if they don't is they default on a loan and then they end up in bankruptcy and all sorts of stuff. So like, they're probably gonna end up in bankruptcy anyway, , if they've defaulted on. On a business loan, unless they can personally pay for it. But generally when people are in that situation where they're getting business loans from banks, they probably don't have the cash. or, you know, the assets on the personal side to be, covering that. So hopefully they aren't, hopefully it an SBA loan or something that, But even those, like a lot of people put their house as collateral on, and so the only way out of them is a bankruptcy. anyways, I digress. Obviously I've had a couple clients go through this and I did not keep the client because they had to close their doors. So I would definitely prepare for the horse not to be like a pessimist, but just a realist over here. Yeah. Carrie says, I'm new to bookkeeping and would like to avoid payroll and inventory for a while. Do you think this will be a big hindrance to getting a virtual bookkeeping started while I get my foundations down? No. I actually think that's the best way to go because those are very complex things. we actually don't have a lot of clients that, Even have requested payroll, although they have payroll. So what we do is we partner with Gusto and , we will help them set it up and we will kind of help them manage, like updating, tax rates and things when they get notices. But, We don't manage running payroll for any clients. They handle that on their own and that's kind of how it should be anyways, because they need to be looking at their team's hours and all that kind of stuff. So, that's how we handle payroll. And as far as inventory of our clients, are smaller, like under a million in revenue, and so they have chosen not to. Track inventory on the balance sheet. And so they track it in their Shopify system and they manage it that way. And we just book all of the purchases to cogs right away. So hopefully that helps give you some ideas on, the realities of working with small business. As a lot of 'em don't want to pay a bookkeeper to actually truly track inventory and it's totally fine to stick with service-based businesses to begin with while you're getting your bearings and I think that's wise and that shows that you have integrity so. Thank you. Diane says, I want to start offering cashflow forecasting. I purchased your Elevate course, but haven't had time to start because of your end. Will it teach me how to do the forecasting? Yes. I have A whole module in there about cashflow forecasting and then other modules about budgeting and kind of the difference between the two. the difference between cashflow forecasting and a cashflow statement, and things like that. So. Definitely dive into Elevate. It's only like, it's only a couple modules and I've broken down the lessons to be bite-sized. So hopefully you can digest it. you can listen on the, go on the app and then come back to the lessons for the visuals when you have time. All right, so it looks like I'm back up on YouTube and I see Mark, , Marcus has a question. He says, how do you handle non-responsive clients, non-responsive to emails, late to pay invoices, et cetera? Do you cut ties after a certain period of non-responsiveness? Yes, absolutely. I cut ties after a certain period. I usually give a couple warnings and offer to get on a call. Usually, sometimes it's a matter of. The communication method isn't right for the client. So part of our onboarding process is asking what are their, what is their preferred communication method? So, that might be something that you need to implement in the future. But this is also a really good opportunity to reset expectations with this existing client that is non-responsive. You can reach out and say, like if you have their phone number, I would call them and say, Hey, I have a few requests that are still outstanding, as of like, maybe it's still year end stuff. And I really wanna make sure that we get you your books so that you can file taxes. Is email not the right method of communication? Unfortunately, like there are some things I'm gonna need you to be at a desk for. So would it be better for us to book a call that I can hold you accountable and we can work through things together? A lot of times clients need something like that and so that's something we, offer first off, instead of just cutting ties and sending a bunch of emails. So like we'll try a different method of communication. We'll try reaching out, to get them on a call with us. If they no show to a call, that is a hard pass for me and I will disengage. So like I will give them a couple opportunities. And I've had issues like this in the past with clients. Where they don't respond to emails. And then finally I send an email that I'm like, alright, would you like to hop on a call? Like, I'm happy to work through this together, but we need to carve out time to do this, or we are going to have to disengage. And usually when I send that warning of like, Youi can either get on a call with us or we're disengaging if this. Continues to be an issue. They usually will respond at that point. And I've had some clients be like, I'm so sorry. Like this is what was happening in my life. And there was like a legitimate reason for it. So, and then there's other times where clients have gotten on the call, worked through things together, and promise that they were gonna change, and then we end up back in the same loop. And so I disengage so. You just have to draw a line in the sand of what you're willing to put up with. And we even have added clauses to our engagement letter for onboarding because there's been times when we haven't been able to onboard a client, and so we have a clause in there because they're non-responsive, where if they don't, if we can't onboard them and they don't get us documents within two weeks of signing the engagement letter, then we have the right to disengage and not return their money for what they've already paid or only return half of it. I can't remember what we put in writing. And, so things like that we've had to implement over time just because we've had similar issues and we've found that if they're non-responsive during onboarding, they're not probably gonna be clients we wanna work with going forward. we're actually kind of in a situation like that with a client, but she's had some personal stuff going on, so I'm extending more grace initially and we'll see how it goes. But you never really know.. So hopefully that's helpful. Um, Andrea, an opportunity has come up to potentially acquire a book of clients. It's not a for sure thing yet, but I'm trying to think of things that I need to talk about with the person selling my offer to her is to only take over the clients that are aligned with the industries we serve at my firm. Would, what would be some things you would for sure discuss upfront? yeah, that would. That's, it's kind of a loaded, a loaded question. I would honestly recommend working with someone who has experience, , acquiring business and try to find someone in your, in the bookkeeping network or even other businesses of like things that they have. You know, if someone has gone through an acquisition, what they wish they had done differently, that's like probably the best way to. To find out what you should ask for or working with a broker, but some of the things I would ask upfront if you're only acquiring the book of business, that makes it a little more simple and you're only interested in acquiring. the clients that align with the industries that you work with, that's really smart. that reduces your risk of attrition. but I would definitely ask them what their plan is for the transition and like how long they want to be involved. and like. What they're gonna do to help with the transition, because you want it to be a successful transition. So the clients don't decide, I'm, if she's leaving, I just wanna go to, I wanna pick my own bookkeeper. I don't wanna go here. So if they're like, if you guys are in alignment on like the way you work and the types of clients you work with, it'll be a lot more successful probably. But I would just kind of chat through that with her. And. Yeah, those are my big pieces of advice. Luckily you don't have to worry about transitioning team or anything like that. but yeah, kind of finding out too, like what is her monthly process like, what if she has been doing with them? Look at the engagement letters. if you can. look at the engagement letter and then ask for like time sheets and stuff of like what they've actually been doing. So you can kind of compare like, has there been scope creep? Am I gonna have to increase fees because of whatever? Like what systems are they using? That kind of stuff. I would probably look at that too. Carrie says if using Upwork to get clients, do use your business name or your personal name? I think, well, when I first started I was using my personal name, because I didn't have a business name. I was just freelancing. and I think it's still set up that way as my personal name, but on my profile I've linked out to like my firm and I use we and things like that. It is really up to you. it might be easier when you're using a personal name because I think that people go on Upwork looking for a person to work with, not a company. So take that with a grain of salt. He says, for someone starting a bookkeeping business, what would be a competitive hourly rate to charge without underpricing yourself? And at what point should you invest in professional liability insurance? Is it necessary right away? so I have a podcast episode or two about, insurance. My take on that is to get insurance as soon as you get your first client. You don't have to get it before, but like get your quotes and everything lined up so you can like pull the trigger as soon as you get your first client. It's just the smart thing to do, and if you have it, you won't need it. Um. My advice on competitive hourly rate. It depends on are you working with local businesses, are you working with, online businesses like digital nomads and things like that. competitive rate, it just depends on what you're offering and like the services you're offering. The type, if you're within a niche, you can charge more because you are specialized within that industry. but I would say. if you're doing an hourly rate, like my current hourly rate after eight years in business, and I also have a CPA license, but I don't practice tax. my hourly rate, if we do things on an hourly basis as a firm is $150 an hour, but most of the time, maybe 50% of the time, I'm delegating that work to someone that I don't pay $150 an hour for. But there's overhead in the firm. so that's kind of, that's where I'm at. when I first started my business, I was charging $30 an hour. So we all start somewhere. I would say like that's, you know,$30 an hour is a competitive rate for being a bookkeeper as an employee. I wouldn't say that's a competitive contractor rate because you have overhead as a business. So, yeah. anyw, who, so anywhere in between that it, it really, like I said, it depends on the level of work you're doing and the type of client you're working with, what their budgets are like. There's so much that goes into pricing that has to be considered and how confident you are in delivering your, like, presenting your value. So. that's why at the beginning I charged$35 an hour or $30 an hour or whatever it was, because I was not confident in saying like, I can help you do this, X, Y, ZI was like, I'm just freelancing because I am on maternity leave and I don't wanna go back to work and da da da. Like it, the mindset was very different. So, um, yeah. I'm als gen generally Jen Lee. I'm not sure if it's generally or Jen Lee. Sorry if I mispronounce things. I'm also a new bookkeeper and only know Q-B-Q-B-O yet, but look forward to trying Zero and other accounting software. But not there yet. Do you see this as an issue with getting new clients? Thank you for these live q and A's. Thank you guys for showing up to these because if you didn't have questions, we wouldn't have these. Um, I would just be sitting here awkwardly blabbering about other stuff until I got tired of no one asking questions and then I would close them down. Um, but to answer your question, I don't think that's an issue, especially because you're starting out with QBO and that's the most common. Software that people are already on and familiar with. So that's a really good place to start. the only thing that I would say it becomes an issue with is when you decide that you don't like working in QBO and you're ready for something different. and that's where I was, I started out offering QBO and Xero and. I just, there's so many things about QBO that I was dissatisfied with, and so I made it a point to transition my clients early on and only take on new clients that were willing to be put on zero. And, it took a while to get there and be a hundred percent zero, a couple years at least, but, If you know that's where you wanna end up, I would lay the groundwork now by putting your own books on Xero and any new client that comes to you that doesn't have books set up yet, offer to set them up on zero. I will caveat this though, that like when you start taking on clients and multiple softwares, your workflow gets slowed down. So it does cause some inefficiencies. So you have to be aware of that, and that's why I say only start adding. Clients in Zero or some other software, if the end goal is to move everybody to that, because like I just said it, it creates inefficiencies when you're switching between two different softwares. Yeah. Kelly says, when you hired, you require some sort of accounting or bookkeeping background. What are your thoughts on training someone with no accounting background and training them? it depends on the role. So if I'm hiring for an account manager role, they definitely need an accounting background. If not. Also a degree in accounting because I'm expecting them to be able to do more complex journal entries, oversee bookkeeping work, understand the entire balance sheet, financial statements, and be able to explain them to clients. So that role definitely requires experience and probably a degree, unless they have enough years of experience and they understand debits and credits and. Like they're self-taught. There's the potential for that. But for the most part, that role requires a degree. and experience if I'm hiring a bookkeeper. actually fun fact, both of my bookkeepers did not come to me with accounting experience and I've mentored them and put them through programs that taught them. So one program I love to put my team through is become a bookkeeper with Katie Farrow, because it goes through Xero and that's what we use in our firm. in case you didn't know that yet. So that's a really good program to put your team through. If you're using QuickBooks online, a program that is really good to put your team through is either, bookkeeper Launch or Acadians, QBO programs.'cause they have like, practice in them. That's the word I was looking for. So, , yeah, I don't believe that. You need experience in bookkeeping to have a good team member. I think more importantly, what is indicative of a successful team member is someone who wants to learn accounting, is willing to grow, and, , is a problem solver. So if they have those attributes than, I would give it a shot and put them through a program instead of like having to teach them from scratch. But then you are also gonna have your own processes. For how you handle things in your firm. so that's gonna be important to build out for that kind of a junior role. Ruhi says what should be included in a solid bookkeeping onboarding process. let's talk about that. we only have a couple minutes, so I'll try to condense that. but. First and foremost, the onboarding process is setting expectations. So figuring out like what you need from the client and giving them like a heads up, setting the expectations of how your engagements go. our process is pretty fine tuned now of from being in business for eight years, but at the beginning it was very hodgepodge and very scary and confusing, and so I understand anyone who is feeling like very nervous about the onboarding piece. I actually have a freebie around onboarding that is going to be very helpful for you, and I think the link is ambitious bookkeeper.com/onboarding. And I give you templates and email templates of like what you're gonna ask from for your client. and things to keep the onboarding process going. Another resource that's really good is we've implemented a system called Content Snare and I put my team through, workflow Queens course that she did called Effortless Client Requests. So you'll have to go to workflow queen.com and it'll be on her website. and it, she walks you through exactly how to set up content snare for onboarding your clients and getting the documents that you need and everything. So definitely recommend going and checking that out. Cole, I do these q and as every month on the last Thursday. so definitely subscribe to YouTube. So you get alerted or a subscribe to our email list, so you get the Zoom link, but you're here so you found it somehow. and then Terry says the plan is to put my daughter partner through her program. Do you have an affiliate link for it? I don't have an affiliate link for effortless client requests because she collaborated with, Brooke. And so they have their arrangement. It's kind of like my collaboration with Kendra Courtney on, the Dubsado course that we have. So if you're interested in setting up Dubsado, definitely go to Dubsado decoded.com. And if you're interested in, content snare, we actually use them both together. so yeah, there's definitely some courses out there that are worth it. Yeah, you have questions about content snare too. Come to the workshops, Andrea, 'cause we're gonna be talking about tech on the second day and I'm gonna be talking about content snare. So, yes, become a bookkeeper. Oh, I do have an affiliate link for that., Will you email me support@ambitiousbookkeeper.com? I might even have it actually linked on our website under resources. So, check that out. so I use content snare in conjunction with Dubsado. We use Dubsado for, the intake. So an inquiry starts out like when people come to our website, they have to fill out a form if they want to book a call.'cause I don't just book random calls anymore. And that immediately, that's a Dubsado form. So it puts them into Dubsado as a lead. Then I invite them to a call if they look like a good fit., and then I do the proposal and engagement letter and first invoice in Dubsado. And then from that point, once they pay that first invoice, we have a Zap that triggers the onboarding sequence in content snare. And so it's a hundred percent automated. once I create a proposal, it's automated, until they fill out. All of the content scenario request, which is all of the documents we're gonna need, and then we begin onboarding and it has been an absolute game changer. So, that's The short version of our onboarding process. come to the workshops if you wanna talk about that more in depth and, I'd love to see you there. The onboarding class, it's just, templates. So, it should be on my website too. I'm actually, Carrie, I'm not sure if you're referring to the templates that I was talking about or Dubsado. Decoded is the Dubsado course. Content snare is the effortless client request, and that is a workflow queen course. So it's on her website. Hopefully that straightens everything out. Thank you all so much for bringing your questions. I truly appreciate it. And just one more little plug, if you weren't here at the beginning. we are hosting the Bookkeeping Biz Workshops March 9th through 11th. they'll be, they will be at 3:00 PM Pacific every evening for those three days. admission is only $37, and I take you through what it takes to start a bookkeeping business. We talk about tech Stack for one full session. Then we cover, building a business you love and sales, on the final day. so the link to get a ticket to the workshops is ambitious bookkeeper.com/workshops. Definitely go check it out. like I said, we start March 9th and we go until the 11th. And I would love to see you there. You guys have been amazing. I have to run. if you want to catch the replay, it's on YouTube now. So I'll talk to you guys later and I hope to see you at the workshops. Bye.

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