The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

227 | Increasing Your Sales with Hunter Rademacher

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 227

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In this episode, Serena interviews Hunter Rademaker and they talk about Hunter’s expertise on sales in accounting, emphasizing client qualification, communication, advisory roles, and strategic hiring for growth.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • Hunter’s unique sales role
  • The sales process & qualifying new clients
  • Advice for new bookkeepers
  • Client retention & advisory
  • Pricing & hiring a sales person

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Meet Hunter Rademacher

My name is Hunter Rademacher, and I work in sales at CSI Accounting & Payroll. I spend my days speaking directly with small business owners — from one-person operations to companies with 100 employees — helping them navigate bookkeeping, payroll, cleanup work, and ongoing accounting support.

Because I’m on the front lines of these conversations, I get a clear view into why small businesses choose a bookkeeper, why they leave one, and what they actually want from an accounting partner. I’ve learned where trust breaks down in the sales process and how bookkeeping firms can position their services more confidently and profitably.

Connect with Hunter

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hunter-rademacher/

Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me @ambitiousbookkeeper

For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:

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You are listening to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. I'm Serena Shoup, your host today, and I'm interviewing Hunter Radmacher who is a sales person in an accounting firm. And I thought it would be really cool to have him on to chat about. That role and to chat about sales and all of the things in between. So whether you are a newer bookkeeper starting your business and you are wondering, or struggling with getting clients, or you are more seasoned in your bookkeeping firm. Been exploring hiring a dedicated sales person for your firm. This episode definitely has some goodies for you, so if you are ready, let's dive right in. welcome Hunter to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast, and welcome back to our listener. This is one of the first episodes of 2026, so, I'm really excited to have you here and to be bringing some amazing interviews., So without further ado, hunter, go ahead and introduce yourself. Yeah. Thanks Serena. I really appreciate it., Hi everyone. My name is Hunter Radmacher. for you guys who don't know, I work for an accounting firm currently, and what I do a lot of times is I'm their main sales person, so my role is selling. Accounting, payroll and like primarily bookkeeping solutions to small business owners. So, that's primarily what I do. Uh, it's kind of like a unique role. I don't know how many people just sell like accounting solutions in this particular particular case or a service. So, I'm really excited to be here and just kind of chat about what I do and I'm really hoping somebody who's listening can get some value out of that. So. Yeah, I was particularly interested in having you on the podcast for a couple of reasons. One being, as I mentioned before we hit record, is that anytime a new, community member comes into our Facebook group, I have some questions that they're required to answer before I approve their entry, and one of them is two. just give a background on what their current struggle is in their business. And a lot of people lately has been like, almost across the board, the struggle is getting clients and even if they just put, like, getting clients is a struggle. I know there's always the aspect of getting leads. and so that's a piece of it. Sales is a piece of it, but in order to be comfortable bringing in leads, I feel like people need to be comfortable selling. But it's like a catch 22 because you're not gonna be comfortable with it until you start doing it. But then it holds them back from like allowing the leads in. So maybe we could dive into that mindset a little bit. the other reason that I was excited to have you on is in case there is anyone listening that is further along in their business, and they're the ones that have been doing the sales and all of that for their own business, and they're ready to. Bring on a dedicated sales person as their firm grows.'cause I know there are some more advanced listeners that are growing a larger team and have really big goals. And, selfishly I have ex like, that's one of my own. Like, that would be really cool to understand what that role, like, what that entails, bringing on someone in that role, how things might be structured. So if we get to that, cool. Um, but yeah, so those two reasons I was like. Super stoked to have you on the podcast, so I appreciate you coming on. Yeah. No, and I, I wanna appreciate you having me as well. I'm really excited to chat about those topics, so, Cool. So let's Start basically with like how you got where you are. yeah.' cause I, that's always, the story is always very like, interesting to me, how people end up in accounting. And then you specifically is a very like, kind of a niche role in accounting. Yeah, it's a little bit longer this story than what you might think, but I, I like to share it with people 'cause I think it's unique. But basically I was, just finished my sophomore year of college going into my junior year and I realized two things. I really have no idea what I want to do. Like a lot of college kids. Hmm. How can I be like proactive about this or think about it. And the other thing was, I had a good summer job at the time, but I kind of just ran out of money. And I come from like a middle class background, so, you know, my parents were helping with college a little bit, a little bit here or there, but I kind of just like selfishly asked my mom like, Hey mom, you think you could just gimme some more money? I'm sure I'll pay you back one day, kind of thing. And she said no. Like, she's just like, you know, Hey Hunter, you have class on Tuesday and Thursday. get a job. I mean, it was like kind of what she effectively told me.'cause I think she just saw that like. You know, just me sitting around isn't necessarily gonna benefit me, as well. So I, I put some thought into it and I decided right then and there. don't I try to get some internships instead of just like getting a job? So my first internship in college was actually an accounting internship, where I was primarily helping a gal or an organization do a lot of their internal accounting functions. I found out really quick that I didn't like just doing the accounting work. I found it to be really boring. I am, very much extroverted and like, like the communication and I was sitting there, I'm like trying to like talk to people. This is a small company, like five employees and I'm like, I need to have the ability to. Communicate, work with people, do more things along those lines than just, you know, touching the numbers, if you will. So I ended up getting two more internships in college. One doing insurance where I was doing auto claims. That was very interesting. You wouldn't believe the bizarre stories. You can hear from people, very much of their lows when after, you know, very serious bad things that could happen to their vehicles or even themselves. then ultimately I did a sales and marketing internship as well to kind of round off college. this is to say I have found out that I wanted to try to do like more like sales. Excuse me. My first job outta college was working at a DP, the payroll company, and they're known for having like a great like sales program, everything along those lines. Did that for about a year. And what I liked about it was, you know, the structure, but what I didn't like was I was employed 2, 2, 5, 3, 6, 1. I wasn't Hunter Rod Amacher, I was a, you know, a Hmm. small number in this big corporate stack. So, I just wanted to work for like a smaller company. thankfully I got, uh, reached out to by a recruiter on CSI. Of, of a recruiter actually from a different company called, house of Revenue or Sales BQ at the time. This company was working with, our accounting firm to actually help put in a marketing and sales department. So they hired an external company and I was the first sales hire from that particular company. So I kind of got trained up. I got eased into the organization myself and another marketing, individual that I currently still work with got brought on board and. That was kind of my introduction to being the first, you know, new sales hire at our current accounting firm in this particular case. So I've been doing this now for five years where I've been, my job is to sell, and bring on and make sure that people have good experiences, small businesses, anywhere from one employee to a hundred, talking to 'em about their bookkeeping, their taxes, or even their payroll in this particular case. So that's a little bit about how I, I got to where I am today. Anyways. Yeah, that's pretty exciting. to hear just like from the beginning. I, I'm always intrigued by people's stories and how, they get into accounting and then where they end up.'cause there's so many different avenues you can take in accounting and, I think it's nice for people to hear, like there's other options. If you know, like, if you know accounting, if that's your background, but you like think it's boring, then maybe this is the path. Yeah. Yeah. Never would've thought it, this could have been an option for me if there was even something like this existed. But you come to realize that every business needs a sales component, whether they're doing it themself or somebody else eventually. It's, really important. So there's always an opportunity for people that, like myself, that, Hey, you don't know what you're gonna do. You can always try it out. You're never gonna have to be there forever if you don't want to, or you might just fall in love with it like I did. Who knows? Yeah, I mean, I can see like as a bookkeeping business owner, an entrepreneur like sales is actually one of my favorite pieces. And when I have like extra time and stuff, I had rather be doing like outreach and more sales, but then I'm like, oh, well we don't have the capacity for that, so I gotta dial it back. You know what I mean? So, as you like, were trained up in this, like in this process with this company, what were some of the like, I guess, growing pains or were there areas that you were able to really like shine and improve and build process that you're pretty proud of? Yeah, no, great question. I, I think initially whenever you're starting a new job, or specifically in sales, it's like, how do you actually run a meeting? Right? What is it, you know, how should we go about sitting down with somebody asking questions? How much should I be talking? What kind of questions should I be asking? What should they be talking about? And it's an evolution, right? Obviously day one, you're not going to be nowhere near as good as you hope to be today, but also as you go forward, you know, I always like to joke that you take a vacation or take some time off or you're not as busy as used to be, you can fall out of good graces as well. So I think a big thing that I, really had to learn at first was the structure of a meeting. What does the successful meeting look like? What pieces of information do I need to ask to make sure I'm covering all the bases, if you will? that was really a big part of like learning in the beginning stages. from there. I think from there, the big thing is just, you know, really reading social cues and knowing how to pivot, right? your person says this, are they actually saying that? Or do they mean that they are worried about this particular problem? And of course, the more and more you do items like that, that you can start to better pick up on what they're actually needing and wanting. But I haven't yet come to that conclusion. So. Yeah. do most of your sales calls occur over Zoom or are they in person or a mix? Mm-hmm. I, I'd say about 90 to 95% of my calls now are Zoom. when I first started, oddly enough, during COVID it was more, you know, 50 50 in this particular case. But I think there's definitely been a shift of people just, understanding the convenience of doing it virtually in this particular case. I'd say 90 10. At this par particular time, I'm more than happy to meet with somebody in person, if need be, if they want, but most people are pretty accepting of, you know, Yeah. space. Do you find that reading body language piece a little more challenging virtually, or have you found workarounds? Yeah. Uh, yeah, potentially. body language is important, but it's my opinion that tone is more important. I mean, usually I can Yeah. someone's tone how they're feeling about something. Like, for example, if you're gonna be presenting somebody price and they're talking like this, the entire meeting. Now they're talking like this, they were surprised by that, or they're pretty shocked. They might need a, a little bit longer to, digest that particular instance. Or, you know, if their voice stays the same or even value, goes up. In this particular case, they might not have been as surprised, right? They might be okay with it. They might be actually pretty excited about it. So it, it's a combination of things, but I, I feel like listening to the tone of their voice is really what makes or breaks it in this particular case. Yeah, that's really interesting., What are some of the, like, what have been some of the key like resources for you to learn the sales structure and the process and becoming like really good at it? obviously practice and doing it more is, important. There's a lot of sales books out there. I don't think you could go wrong and we've had a lot of sales training as well, you know, thankfully to our, our owner in this case who's done put a lot of resources into that, but I think that the biggest thing that helps me the most is just. Constantly asking and like getting your, getting yourself outta the way. I think the biggest issue that a lot of salespeople have is they think that they're this awesome person, that we need to tell them what they need and all these other things. In my opinion, that couldn't be further from the truth. My best meetings are when I'm asking questions and for lack of better words, I shut the hell up, right? Yeah. So I think the biggest resources is like, kind of like that constant reminder, whether it's a sticky note right there or anything along those lines that, hey, when in doubt just ask questions. These people have issues. They want you to solve it. You just have to let them do it effectively in this particular case. And it's just not getting in your own way is kind of like the best training I've had, over my tenure years so far. Yeah, I found that one of the most difficult parts of the sales process is actually. making sure I'm not trying to sell to someone that isn't going to be a good fit client, if that makes sense. Like I, I'm pretty confident on being able to close my sales calls, but my worry is always like, what if we bring on a really, like bad, hard to work with clients? So, do you have things that you. Can illuminate an issue, a potential issue. And do you have the leeway at your, where you're at currently to like make that decision? Like, I'm not gonna invite this person as a client. Yeah, no, I'm glad you a, a asked that 'cause it is such an important point in question. In this particular case, probably the most important thing that I do is bring on qualified people or good fits because, you know, I always like to not joke, but just mention that. Whatever you bring on as an issue today, it could, has the possibility that could five, 10 times be a bigger issue down the road. So, yes, it's, it's my job to bring on new clients, but also ones that we are deemed a good fit. And what I tell people is it's definitely a learning process to kind of identify who's going to be and who isn't. And sometimes you don't always know, but you know. If it's a red flag in the beginning, it's a good chance they're gonna, you know, be a red flag in the, in the end. A lot of people don't change, especially in that short period of time from when you're talking to'em, from when they come on board and whatever tenure they have as a client. If they have this personality that's coming across a little unfriendly or they're not getting you certain pieces of information. What's gonna change between now and that first conversation, the onboarding and whatever timeframe you're gonna be in. you can have a serious talk with them. Like, Hey, I need you, if you wanna work with us, I need you to, you know, play ball here and do these certain things. But you know, people only if they still don't do it after the fact, it's usually a good indicator that there's not gonna be a good fit. So not only do I. You know, kinda get graded on, if you will, about what kind of clients I bring in. But it's definitely in my best interest as well, because there's certain clients that can cause such a rift down the road that it's just like I would do anything to go back in time, not to have to deal with this. So I think, it's definitely important just to make sure that you listen to your gut in initial stage if someone's coming across. not a good fit. It's a good chance, you're most likely right? But that's hard. You know, if you're a new bookkeeping company and you wanna bring on clients and you wanna get some revenue in the door, you feel like, you feel like conflicted. Like, I, you know, this is a lot of money. Or I, I needed this to keep growing my business. I think in those moments in time, it's always a, a difficult, weighing out process, but will pay for it one way or the other. If you bring on someone who's not supposed to be. Yeah. Absolutely I am. I'm just trying to like, reflect on some of the times that I've had that like little inkling and consciously like pushed it out of the way basically like, oh, that's probably nothing. It does rear its ugly head later on because on sales calls it's almost, it's, kind of like an employee interview. Like people are always gonna put their best foot forward. So if they are putting their best foot forward and there's still something that is rubbing you the wrong way, likely that's, like you said, it's gonna five to 10 x later on because they're holding back so. Yeah, exactly. It's kinda like you're dating somebody for the first time. Like they're not gonna, you know, mention all their issues that they have up front. They're gonna try to explain all the good qualities and the reasons why you should consider working with us in this particular case. And I think that's important that bookkeepers listening to us understand that too. It's just like. You know, they're, they're wanting to work with you too. It isn't like you have to go to every single one of their needs in order for it to be a successful working relationship. You know, there, it has to be mutual. In this particular case, you don't wanna start right from the get go. The idea that you're gonna bend over backwards for someone who isn't gonna be potentially willing to do the same again, more issues, more, more problems that can come down the road if you start to do that. So. Yeah, absolutely. so when, I guess I would love to talk about like how if someone is brand new to starting their business and They're in that phase of like, their struggle is getting clients, but they're kind of holding themselves back to put themselves out there and get clients. Like what advice would you have for that person, to kind of get over of like, I need to just because we don't, most, most accountants are introverted, which I honestly. Is a superpower because that makes us really good listeners, which honestly helps the sales conversation a lot more than you would think. But like you said, like just shutting up, and letting other people talk, is really important. So what is your big piece of advice for someone that's kind of just starting out and they're like, I am way too afraid of selling. I, I don't know if I can, like, I can't even find clients to, to be able to sell to. So what do I do? Yeah, hardest part of any new sales role or entrepreneurship. Anything in this particular case is like, how do I start? How do I get the first client? How do I get momentum? And I could say a lot of like just, you know, mo motivation, confidence, here's what you need to do. But I don't really think that's very helpful. What I would do or what I would do if I was, uh, starting to own my own bookkeeping conversation. Is, I would reach out to as many single owner CPAs as much as possible, and I can understand, you know, picking up the phone or walking in, or even my cold email can start to feel intimidating to people. But just start where you can. Whatever allows you to start in the amount of activity you need to do. Maybe you write letters, for example. Maybe you just stop on by and just say, Hey, I'm really interested in working with you, and I think the most important thing that you should do is consistently say you're gonna do this many. People every single day, 10 20, whatever the amount of people is, and recognize that you're probably not gonna have that level of success right away. It's when you least think about it down the road when that account might get back to you or whomever else that referral partner might be. I think it's really important that people also understand. That when you are doing like this outreach to these bookkeepers, what are you actually offering them? many times as an accountant or a referral partner said, Hey, I'm new and I wanna work with you and I want you to send me leads. It doesn't seem very genuine, right? I think you have to prove yourself. And like if, if that means like, hey. I'm willing to clean up the books of one of your clients for free just to get your foot in the door. I think when you're brand new, you have to be willing to wanna do these things, right? You gotta be different than everybody else that's reaching out, whether you're introverted, extroverted, whatever it is. In this case, how are you gonna differentiate yourself from the rest of the pack or everybody else that wants the same business that you can? What are you gonna be doing differently? You know what, what, what do you feel like you do really well that the average bookkeeper doesn't, and then use that to explain it to 'em. Then ultimately just, you know, keep them in mind. I think, you know, when you're reaching out to somebody, one touch point is not gonna be enough. So again. Whether it's a month later, weeks later, whatever it is, you know, try to reach out to 'em again. These accountants are busy. it doesn't mean that they're not interested, it Right. that they, they don't even know your name. So it's, it's important that you build out some system, you stick to it and just, you know, I think that, and like timelines are important too. So many people that start think like, okay, they're gonna work really hard about this. Maybe too hard. Like for the first two, three months maybe they burn out. Versus if they just did a little bit less activity throughout the entire year, I do think people would be a lot better off. So it's just important to really stay the course as well. Don't quit before you. I dunno if you've ever seen the picture of that guy. He's mining for diamonds and the one guy quits and there's a whole bunch of diamonds just on the other side of the, the, the, I always like to laugh at that, but I think it's so true, right? So. That's kind of how I would go about it. a, a business bankers, consultants, I don't think you can necessarily go wrong, but you know, everybody who's starting out should create a list of 50 to a hundred people of man. If I had the opportunity to work with this individual, I would be doing amazing. And the reality is you don't need anywhere near that many. You probably need 3, 4, 5 accountants, a couple consultants, whatever it is. Now you have your base. Now you're doing good work. Now you're getting referrals. Now. You're so busy. You have to hire somebody. Right. Good problem to have. Yeah. that's what I would do if I was in that position though. Yeah, that's a really good, I like that piece of advice because as like an accountant or an introvert like. It's gonna be easier to talk to another accountant. Like you don't have to worry about sounding too jargony because they understand the language. and really all you're doing is, yeah, like you said, like find a way to set yourself apart. be likable, be. Easy to work with. That's the biggest and receptible or receptive. So like if they, you know, you can let them know, like, I'm happy to like, do things the way that you want them done so that you can get your taxes, you know, their taxes done more efficiently or whatever. Like, you wanna them not just, you just don't, you, you, you're not there to just take some business, you know? Exactly. yeah. So. speaking of, I had this thought while you were talking and I was gonna segue into something else from it. I guess it'll come back to me. but one is that since you have the, like, your job is to talk to tons of business owners on a daily basis, right? So you get to see on the front lines. Maybe someone listening hasn't had that this exposure yet, but you get to see on the front lines a why, someone is switching from another bookkeeper. When we talk about this is what, what I was trying to segue into. Speaking of standing out and setting yourself apart, what are some of the reasons why business owners would switch away from another bookkeeper? So maybe this will help you find a way as you're listening, help you find a way to like stand out. and then b, like what are some of the patterns that you see when you're talking to these business owners, even if they're not switching from a prior bookkeeper, issues that they're having in their business where bookkeeping obviously can help. Great question. I think that's, best question ever, actually in this case. think, well, just speaking with other bookkeepers that I've, you know, networked as well, that there's this insight that, ah, my client left me because I must have done somebody incorrect, or I didn't get the books a hundred percent accurate. I don't think that, I think that's the furthest thing from the truth. I think people lead bookkeepers for two reasons. One, a lack of communication. They're not staying up to date. And two, a lack of accountability. do I mean by all those things? When's the last time, uh, your bookkeeper had reached out to you to make sure that you're doing well, that you're satisfied with the service, and then two, you know, are you setting deadlines? Are you actually providing them the work or the books on a certain timeframe? Are you actually doing what you said you were going to? So many people that come to us say, yeah, I signed for this bookkeeping person. It sounded good. And then they haven't touched my books in six, seven months. Right? I was under the impression that they were gonna be doing it quarterly or monthly or whatever in this particular case, and then when I reach out to'em, I can't get ahold of 'em either. I think people, there's such a change that people, all small business owners know that they need accurate numbers, but they don't really understand why. You know what I mean? Like, oh, I know I need accurate numbers so I can file an accurate tax return so I don't get in trouble, so I don't go in jail. How ridiculous does that sound, right? Like that's the floor in this case, I think there's such an opportunity for a bookkeeper, to become an advisor as well. Like, not to say you have to become a tax wizard or anything like that, but you know, if you are gonna do the numbers, you say what you're going to, you're gonna do it accountable and you wanna offer them to like kind of break down, Hey, here's what kinda what your numbers are telling me month over month compared to what you did. That right there, I think small business owners are screaming for and they just can't really seem to get it from their bookkeepers in this particular case. I, I tell people all the time, numbers are just numbers unless you do something with them, right? Yeah. if you're just delivering your numbers to your client every single month. don't be surprised when they're shopping around for a lower price. Or don't be surprised when someone who says, Hey, I'll, go over all this with you, and kinda help you understand how your business is doing. You're gonna lose those people because I think at the end of the day, people wanna understand, you know, why am I paying for these numbers to be accurate? What does it actually mean? What kind of decisions can I make off of what, how my business is doing? Yeah, I can vouch for that because 100% of the clients that we've taken over that have come from another bookkeeper, that's it. They're, dissatisfied with either lack of communication or dissatisfied with, like, all they're getting is, Hey, your bookkeeping's done. They don't get reports. They don't get an explanation, they don't get, any sort of education about what their numbers are doing or context. Pet peeves. If you're a longtime listener of the podcast, you probably heard me say this, but if you at least send reports, but don't just stop there because I still see this is also an issue. Clients have come to us, they're getting reports and they're getting them timely, but they don't have any context around them. Meaning like they're just getting the January report with no comparison to what happened the prior January or the prior month. So there's no context to like, what does this even mean? Am I doing better? Am I doing worse? Do I need to be worried? Or like any of that kind of stuff. so please at least give them like a monthly month over month p and l or year over year so that they can pick, compare, like where they're tracking against last year. and you don't have to do budgets either. Like this is all very valuable information that they can use, without going really deep into advisory. So. Yeah, I, I could have said it better myself, and I just think even like when you're first bringing on a client, like, you know, what's important to you, like. when you look at this financials, a figure out what their level of education is on it. Do they understand how to read the profit loss? If they don't, okay, that's where we can start. But let's just say that they do, in this case. What's it important for you to see, like, you, obviously your profit margin, your top line, your bottom line, but where else do you, what's important to you? Ah, we really, I really wanna be tracking my payroll expenses, right? Or my payroll wages as a percentage. How hard would it be every single month before you deliver that report that you can say, Hey, your, here's your payroll, , wages, your expense, here's the percentage it's gone up. 3% compared to last month or went down whatever this case. Adding a small nugget, albeit even just in an email to, to supply them with something that's important to 'em, could mean the absolute world for them. And it's a really easy way, in my opinion, to go above and beyond what a bunch of other bookkeepers are doing. I think in today's day and age with you hear about AI and all this technology, I think again, if you wanna continue to be on the up and up, how are you gonna differentiate yourself? And I think that is an example of actually. the numbers and interpreting them for your clients is really gonna help keep, keep you safe, comparative to someone else who could potentially get replaced by just a machine or whatever it might be in this case. So. Yeah, I know for myself, I felt like even the, the little bit that I was interpreting for. to me felt like a little bit, but for them it's a lot to five bullet points. Like, here was your revenue, here was your cost of goods sold, here's your gross margin, here's your operating expenses. Like just having things summarized in that format like is so helpful, helpful to clients, even though we might feel like, oh, that's so simple. It's not even worth doing because they could just look at the reports and see that, but it's still like, it's different. And then, like you said, adding. A different nugget of information each month. Like we have our templated, like we give them these exact same bullet points every month. We do monthly versus year to date to show them how they're tracking. But still, if there's something out of the ordinary that month or it's something that, I wanna call attention to, it's like that they should be able to see on their financial statements. But I just wanna like call it out and. Your top producing product is now this, it used to be this, or like any little piece of information. It seems so simple, but those are the things that make the big differences because every time you send them their monthly financials, give them some new piece of information so you're not piling it all on at once, but you're giving them another different nugget and you can point to where you see it on the financials if you want. So in the future they can look for it or whatever. but one of the things you said is asking them like , what is important to them to see? And that's one of the areas that I think maybe we should unpack a little bit because how do we find out what is important to them? A lot of times they can't really articulate what it is they're looking for. They initially come to us and they're like, I just know I. When I look at what my bookkeeper sends me or my tax repair, I just have this like sense of dread. I dunno what I'm looking at. I dunno what I should be looking at. So how do you kind of distill down or extract from them? I'm assuming you do this in the sales process, that's why I'm asking. how do you extract that from them so that when you hand over, like once you get the client signed, I'm assuming you then hand it off to. An account manager or a onboarding specialist or something like, correct. so then you have to disseminate that information to them too. Like, this piece seemed really important to them during the sales call, so let's make sure that this, you know, carries through. Like how do you find that piece of information that, they need or want. Mm-hmm. I think it ultimately comes down to before you got, go into specific details, asking them what their goals are, you know, short term, long term, whatever it is, and almost always some iteration is I want to grow right. So once they say that I want to grow, then I'll ask them along the lines of like, why do you feel like you haven't been able to grow? Well, I don't know. I just feel like I work hard. Money comes in and it just flies out the door that much faster. Right. Okay. Okay, well let's sit down and actually go through this. So what I do is I typically just look at like their biggest expenses. Typically it's payroll, it might be, you know, a couple other items. It's obviously dependent on the business and the industry, but I'll go over their business expenses with them and like, did you really know that you spent, you know. 33% of your, you know, entire expenses on payroll, right? Or did you know this cost was costing you over $10,000 over the last couple of months in the spot, or whatever it might be. And usually when I'm talking to people and showing this, they have no idea or they're, they're in disbelief that these expenses are this much in this particular case. So I think what I really do keep it really simple, I'm simply just reading them the results, then I'm showing them like what's going on in their business. And oftentimes when someone's talking to me. can't even necessarily con, con concretely say that the numbers are accurate. If they're coming to us for a bookkeeping issue, there's a good chance this number might be off as well. So then I'll put more doubt into the situation, like, okay, we don't know if this is accurate, so would you agree? We have to figure out a way to get them accurate so we can start to go off of this. And almost always at that point in time, someone's willing to say, absolutely. I can't believe I've been running my business this way. I've been, you know, shooting from the hip. I like to almost use the analogy like. are the head coach of your business. You know, take whatever your favorite sport is. Your books are the scoreboard, they're the stat sheet. How are you supposed to lead your team to victory, your business to victory if you don't even know the score or who's doing well and what in this particular case? So it's just, it's really important that people. actually just go through the, financial with them because there's a good chance they really haven't done it, them themself because it's uncomfortable.'cause they know it's inaccurate and they don't have that advisor in their life that's helping them actually understand it as well. It's very rare. So being the first person to do that, a gains a lot of trust, but it definitely opens up a lot of their, you know, their eyeballs essentially on like what's actually happening. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And the other piece too is they, maybe the books are accurate, but they. they can never reach the bookkeeper or they don't feel like they can ask these questions from the bookkeeper to dig into things 'cause they feel like it's always an inconvenience or whatever. They don't get a timely response. So they're like, I don't even bother asking like, what these mean, because they're not gonna respond anyways. Or they're not confident in the, bookkeeper being able to explain things. And from the bookkeeping side, I can see sometimes where. as a bookkeeper, an accountant. When a client comes back and they're like, what can you tell me more about like this account or dig into the details like, this doesn't seem right to me. They're not necessarily saying that they don't trust your work. They're just trying to figure out why that number is so high or so low. It's not anything we did and we tend to, like, I found that we tend to take responsibility. For like, oh no, like it must be some mistake that I made. Like they're calling me out and that's not it at all. They just want in more information. So if you receive requests like that where the client is like, can you give me the detail of this account? They're not. Double checking your work. There might be some reclassifications they wanna make once they dig in, not realizing, oh we should have been putting this in advertising instead of just the marketing account or whatever. And that's a preference thing. And they have, they should be looking at those things and asking you to move them.'cause they should be reviewing the financial, so like, don't freak out. It's a cry for help, right? Yeah. not, to your point, they're not doubting that what you're doing is incorrect. They're just like in disbelief that this is actually accurate. There's, you know, in their mind, they weren't running their business like that. So Yeah. come to that conclusion, you know, the reality has changed. what are they gonna do about it? You know, if they wanna get back on track for their goals, what needs to change? I think, you know, that right there is a really important moment where you could go back to 'em and say, no, I, I'm pretty confident those numbers are accurate. To your point, we can change it. But overall, the cost is the cost, you know? How do you want to go about this? Or, you know, offering any little piece of advice that you potentially can or even taking from other clients' experiences. Obviously you don't have to share their name, but hey, I had a client that was in the same situation. They actually doubled down on their advertising and marketing, in this particular space, and it worked out really well. We, what we found out was they actually weren't maybe investing enough. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case for you here. I'm just letting you know you look very similar to the situation my other client was in. The Yeah. that right there, I think is so underutilized with a lot of people. They're afraid that to use other people's experience, but people just wanna know when they're making decisions that someone else has done it and they've, lived to see the day. Right. If you can give somebody that confidence when you're doing it, I think it's, they're really gonna be thankful and again, trust you even more after you're doing that. Yeah. That's one of the things that I, when I bring on new clients and we run their p and l once we migrate them like officially, and I start running the numbers and I look at that net profit percentage. Like, that's always one of those things that they're like, oh, I didn't realize like I made this much, or like, you know, as a percentage of revenue, basically. Like when I can point out to them like, your profitability is actually really good compared to the rest of my clients or whatever. They're like, oh, I had no idea. Like, I just, you know, was whatever. And that's Always a good thing to do. I think it's important too. If you recognize a client's doing good, probably the easiest layup you can do is let 'em know, Hey, you're doing really well from where I'm sitting. You know, whether or not they choose to agree fully with that statement. That goes a long ways. People work hard. They want to know that they're being recognized. Oftentimes, when you're a business owner. You don't have like a superior letting you know that you're doing really good. Right? So giving them, you know, some confidence to let them know when they're doing well on something or whatever they're working on, can go a long way in them really appreciating you even more That's one of the things that I have in our like template that we send our monthly financials to the clients is a little bullet point is like find anything that you can celebrate. When looking at the numbers, whether it's, oh, you paid down extra debt this month, or like your profitability's up or your cost of goods went down, or any, small thing or even like, Hey, I see how like hard you're working. Like I see what you're doing online with your social media or whatever. So it doesn't even really have to be numbers related, just like words of affirmation in any way. Yeah, I mean, people wanna know that they, they like to be seen. They like to be heard. They like to know that they're doing something. And it can be really hard to continue to do that if they don't see that immediate results. But if you have a vendor that you're work like you're, you being the vendor, if you can help them keep that confidence going a long way, you can in a way help them reach their goal. Yeah. And if they reach their goals, you reach yours. And that's one thing that I always have to remind myself of is like, it, their success, like our success is kind of dependent on their success. So why wouldn't we do whatever we can to help them succeed? Yeah, Their business continues to grow. They're gonna have more bookkeeping activity, and you can grow with them. yeah. Absolutely. so one of the other things that tend to come up in. Our sales conversations is pricing, and I know this is a big one for our listeners, like they feel really weird about talking about pricing and there's different schools of thought on other, you should present pricing on the call or follow up with a proposal. So I'd love to hear your take on the whole pricing conversation. Yeah, I think it really depends on like what you determine your sales cycle. But I'm just gonna use mine for an example. So typically, , let's just say I got a referral or I'm reaching out to somebody, or. Or anything in this particular case, and I'm having that initial conversation with them. That call, the conversation is usually to identify the background, the summary, if you will. And typically at the end of that call, they will ask, Hey, hunter, or they will say, Hey Hunter, this all sounds great, but what is this gonna cost me? Right? And I think a lot of people will shudder at that moment in time and they freak out and they feel like they have to be protective over it because you honestly don't know, right? You need information, you need to do all these other things. What I've found is the best thing that you can do. Is give a range, right? And it doesn't have to be a concrete range. And even what works better than that is kind of explain, Hey, I can't give you an exact price right now. Here's all the factors and here's why I need them. If you explain to someone like what goes into your price and what information you'll need, they'll typically understand that. Like, Hey, I'm not gonna be held to a single price today. But then try to give them to the best of your ability, a wide range or something. Because I think in today's day and age, you know, with internet and research. You just have to be more truthful about it. There's no sugar coating it. You are who you are. You're worth what you're worth, and you don't need to hide that right now. That doesn't mean you have to, you know, give 'em a price that you're stuck to, but I, I do think people should have the confidence to. Give a range. So let's just say you give the range. They're like, okay, that seems interesting. We'll see. Or whatever result they give you, you end up getting the information. I, I typically go to a second meeting, where I'm going over their situation, reviewing their bookkeeping with them. typically I'll also take a look at their taxes or if they have anything else withstanding. I also like to recap our first conversation. So, hey, you had mentioned that you have X, X, X and x and x wrong. Right? Here's kinda like a game plan on how we would solve that for you. But then also I always go over the pricing on the call or the meeting. I never send a proposal without talking with them because in their mind, you know, it's very easy to see that dollar price by themself and just shut off mentally. I was prepared to pay $500 a month. It's 6 0 5. Can't do it right. If you're there, you're willing to hear what they have to say. If you can ask questions, you can remind them, you can point out, sometimes the obvious people are more likely to understand, you know what, it is $605, but it's saving me all this time issue stress that I'm not thinking about when I'm just by myself. Right? So I think in terms of pricing, it's always that big taboo, but I think you have to be confident. to be open about like the price range. Then ultimately, when you do have your price, it's very important that when you're presenting it to someone, you do it with confidence.'cause people can sense when you're kind of BSing them or that you don't feel confident about it, like you are worth what you're worth. You need to hold onto that. But then ultimately, once you present price, and it's probably the hardest thing of all time, you gotta shut the hell up too after. After you do that, right? And the price is gonna be $605. It's kind of like the cliche, the first person that speaks loses, and I think there is some truth to that. So I think what you have to do is say it confidently, almost like you're not just interested, but it doesn't bother you either, which way? Just look at 'em, them speak and whatever they come up with at that point in time, you know, you'll know at least if you do all that, you put yourself in the best position possible. Again, that, that's my opinion anyways. Yeah, I bet. Since you aren't the one that actually like delivers the work, it's easier to say to. I. To say the pricing, you know what I mean? So I think that Al also creates some friction as the business owner.'cause it's like, I really need this client, or I really want this client. I don't wanna overprice and lose them. There's all this other mental chatter that happens when we're, you know, the ones, you know, managing the entire thing versus you. You get to come in and be like, this is our pricing and this is just, it is what it is. Like I don't have leeway. Sure. And that's a, that's a very fair point, But, um, to that point, like maybe if you are, if you're a listener and your firm is at the point where you're like, I don't even really have enough time to be taking more sales calls, but I do want to grow, maybe it's time to start exploring bringing in someone to do sales for you. So what would, like, what does that look like for, for a small firm? Typically like, I don't know if you can share like your experience on like what does the compensation structure look like? Do you get paid like a base rate plus commissions type of situation? Just so people can start to gain an understanding of what that would like look like if they outsource that piece. Yeah. we're a part of a big accounting association where there's some other salespeople and we, do consulting or I have been consulting with other firms that are just starting out. To your point, they're hiring their first sales person. And typically, to your point, the base plus the commission is pretty typical, Mm-hmm. you have some leeway or like some comfortable, you know, base, you're obviously gonna get paid something in this particular spot. But then also, you know, typically how I get paid is, it's based off an annualized revenue. So over the year. of January, for example, that were sets. So now I'm in my lowest tranche, but as I go on throughout the years, I sell more and more. My commission structure goes up, up, up gradually based off certain dollar and sales targets in my opinion. I think it's the best way you could go about it. It's always incentivizing you not only to sell something, but to continue to sell throughout the year through the dog days and everything else to try to get to your ultimate goal, which is that highest area, and ultimately where you'd wanna be as as an owner as well. you had mentioned that, like what are some good signs that you make sense to hire a salesperson? I, I think when, you know, the owner's been doing it for so long and they start to come, they come to the realization that like, I'm busy. I'm getting pulled in all these different directions, you know, and also they come to the conclusion that. If I hire the right person, I give 'em the right training, they're probably gonna be a lot better than I am at this. Right? And that's a hard thing for people to swallow that like, hey, but they have to come to the realization. If someone's just focusing on this, they can probably get pretty good. They'll know your organization, they'll just be focusing on this. They're not running payroll, they're not dealing with all these other issues or putting out fires. If they could just focus on sales and do that, I bet you we could really, you know, turn this machine up a little bit. So I think, you know. you're, uh, somebody listening to this and you're kind of con contemplating it, I think it's really important that you kinda look at yourself in the mirror and just be like, you know, Hey, if I never had to do this again, but if someone could either match or even see my output I'm doing right now, how much better off could we be? Right. Yeah, especially with all the other hats that we wear.'cause if you're at that point where you're like, I don't really have enough time to do sales, but like I, you know, I wanna grow, whether you're still stuck in doing some of the accounting or it's a combination of accounting that you're doing client work, doing sales, you're doing some other marketing like content creation, which is different than sales, like. Yeah. Also managing employees or contractors. If you have even one person on your team, you're still, there's a portion of your brain and energy that's going to managing that. So if there's something you can take off your plate and sales is one of the things you maybe don't like, or maybe you do like it, but you're getting to the point where it's like. It's time to maybe bring someone else in to help me, you know, double my efforts or whatever. I encourage you all to consider that that's something that I transparently have been considering as I go into my next phase of, of growth because, because I also just don't wanna work full time. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like I could, I mean, I could take more sales calls, but I don't wanna be on more calls. And then when the work comes in, who's gonna like. You know, I have to think about who's gonna do that work. So now my brain is dedicated like shifts to like, okay, now we've gotta put out another job description or hire another person or whatever, and then train that person. So there's all these things that kind of come into play. so yeah, that's something that I've been exploring. I think maybe sales will be my next hire. I don't know, You never know, right? consult. Yeah. done a little consulting work for other firms that have been in our position or just starting up. I for one, you know, really find it interesting, something I really enjoy. I like doing it 'cause I think it makes me better at what I do as well, you know, kind of seeing someone at the ground level starting up. You kinda get reminded of all of what it took and what you need to continue to do to be successful. So any opportunity I get to work with someone or even give my feedback on like where they might be, is something that I, I personally just really enjoy about, like, working in the field. You know, I think it's really fun to. Exciting for people that are looking at it because they can sense the next step of growth if things go correctly. Right? They know that they need, they're busy enough, they got enough stuff going on that if they can get themselves back to where they need to focus on, in theory, good things can happen. So, I, I, I always enjoy talking to people or people like you in your situation that are contemplating it and helping them really understand what it might look like. You know, you know, you know what the roadmap might look like, what, what they might need to be successful. All things that I think I can kind of attest to because I was, somebody who went through it. Yeah. Yeah. That's all like, that's the scariest part when you're exploring, hiring or outsourcing a piece of the business is like, how much am I gonna, like how much business does it need to bring in to pay for itself, for one? And then what systems do we need to set up? I don't have in place because it's all in here in my brain, you know what I mean? And then like the proposal system or like pricing and all that kind of stuff. Like there's some things to think about before you just jump in. if you are, I don't even know if this is a thing you do, but like if you are open to consulting is, if not, I can cut this out where. I, I think I would be, you know, I think it's something that I would, I'd be open to, and you know, if nothing else, if somebody had questions reaching out, I'd love to see what's out there in terms of that, because I don't think I'm impeding on what I'm currently doing. I have enough time and availability to do it. But also, like I said, I'm genuinely interested in, you know, people's situations and what they have going on. And to your point, there's so many things that I just take like, you know, for granted, like the back of my hand. People don't understand like how pricing should go, how they could structure it, or the proposal software or a bunch of other things in this case. And I feel, you know, blessed to say that it's just my every day. So I, it's always nice to be able to share that information,, with someone in the Scout. So, absolutely. Awesome. So with that then, where can people connect with you if they want to, learn more about what it would look like to hire someone for sales on their team and all of that good stuff. Yeah, I would say the best way to go about it is. Either to connect with me directly on LinkedIn. My name's Hunter Rademacher, R-A-D-E-M-A-C-H-E-R, and then shoot me a message on there. Otherwise, my personal email address,, h Radmacher is my first initial last name, RADEMACHER twenty1@gmail.com. Feel free to reach out to me or, I mean, , I think on my LinkedIn, my phone number is there too. Feel free to gimme a call. I'm, you know, fairly new to all this, but I'm very passionate about what I do and if someone has just a general question, what goes into it, more than happy to give my perspective and my opinion on, you know, kind of how I would maybe go about it or just a couple of pointers and go from there. So, I Cool. what it's all about. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing with our listeners and thank you again so much. I appreciate it. Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure and it's been a blast chatting with you today. All right, we'll talk to you guys soon. You are listening to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. I'm Serena Shoup your host today, and I am interviewing, uh, someone and I'm interviewing Hunter Radmacher from, who is a sales person in an accounting firm. And I thought it would be really cool to have him on to chat about. That role and to chat about sales and all of the things in between. So whether you are a newer bookkeeper starting your business and you are wondering, um, or struggling with getting clients, or you are more seasoned in your bookkeeping firm. Been exploring hiring a dedicated sales person for your firm. This episode definitely has some goodies for you, so if you are ready to listen, let's dive right in. You are listening to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. I'm Serena Shoup your host today, and I am interviewing, uh, someone and I'm interviewing Hunter Radmacher from, who is a sales person in an accounting firm. And I thought it would be really cool to have him on to chat about. That role and to chat about sales and all of the things in between. So whether you are a newer bookkeeper starting your business and you are wondering, um, or struggling with getting clients, or you are more seasoned in your bookkeeping firm. Been exploring hiring a dedicated sales person for your firm. This episode definitely has some goodies for you, so if you are ready to listen, let's dive right in.

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