The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

173 ⎸ Money Stories & Shame around Money with Wall Street Girl Next Door (Nicole Ayub)

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 173

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In this interview episode, we've got Nicole Ayub, the fabulous Wall Street Girl Next Door, sharing her insights on money stories, emotional hang-ups, and shaking off that pesky shame around finances. Get ready to dive deep and rethink your money mindset!

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • why we're all feeling funky about our finances and how to fix it
  • a money exercise that'll help you discover what's really going on in that wallet of yours
  • understanding your "money story”
  • some real talk on financial shame


Resources mentioned in this episode:


Meet Wall Street Girl Next Door

Nicole’s passion is to help people have a healthy relationship with their money. She currently works on Wall Street and she’s been in the finance industry for over a decade and she has seen how we do not give people the support and resources they need to have a healthy relationship with their money. She created her brand so people can have a safe space to heal their relationship with money and talk about their struggles and overcoming them.


Connect with Wall Street Girl Next Door

📱 IG: @wallstreetgirlnextdoor

🎙️ The Money Diaries Podcast

📞 Schedule a free 30-min consultation


Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @ambitiousbookkeeper

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Serena:

Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper podcast. I have a guest on here today, Nicole Ayoub, the Wall Street girl next door, and the two of us met, I think we met on Threads, right? Yeah, sometimes the Threads algorithm has been, like, really good to me, and I keep promising in an episode to talk about Threads, and I have not yet. So, regardless, welcome to the podcast, I'm so excited to have you. Thank you.

Nicole:

Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.

Serena:

so you talk about personal finance and I always. I need to bring that conversation into my audience for the bookkeepers and accountants that we have, which you wouldn't think that we need to talk about personal finance. Like you think that we should know all of these things. And some of us, that's part of our shame is like, We feel like we should know all of these things because we probably did learn it in college, but the fact of the matter is it's like a very behavioral thing. so yeah, I'm really excited to dive into personal finance with you. Can you give us a background on you, like what you do? And how you ended up here.

Nicole:

Yeah, absolutely. And just to touch on, there is such a stigma around people who work around numbers or money that they should know about personal finance. I even noticed that people in finance don't know personal finance because it's something that's so specific. And there is a lot of shame that people have around that. And so we can get into that. But yeah, I'm really excited to be here. I love talking about money and talking about personal finance and helping people think about money a little bit differently and taking a little bit of a different angle than traditional personal finance too. So about me, I live in New York City. Today actually is the anniversary of me moving to New York eight years ago, which this is always, yeah, like a really, uh, Just kind of like exciting, emotional day for me that I've just kind of thought about my journey over the past eight years. So I'm originally from San Diego and I started in the finance industry a long time ago, back in 2013. And I've been in wealth management ever since. And as soon as I got into the industry, I saw that there were gaps. Within the finance industry that people that the wealth management and finance only is geared towards people who already have money and usually a lot of money. And so I always thought, well, what happens to everybody else? Like who is helping those people and who is giving people the support and the resources that they need so that they can. Start accumulating assets. And so this has been a really long time passion of mine. And two years ago, actually today, October 17th is, a significant day. So Dan moved to New York. Yeah. And then it's two years ago is the day that I actually launched wall street girl next door. And. Last year on October 17th was the day that I launched my podcast, The Money Diaries. And

Serena:

Why did, why is it just that like in October, you're finally like, okay, I'm doing this.

Nicole:

yeah. It's like a real go month for me that I'm just like, let's just make things

Serena:

Is it like planned that you're like, Oh, this was the anniversary of me moving here. So I'll start this thing. Or

Nicole:

It just kind of happened that way. And then it was the date that my website and everything went live. And then the podcast was a little bit planned where I was, I was like, I really want to post my first episode on this date because it was around that same time. So I was like, okay, instead of having it like two weeks before I'll, I'll just wait. So it's just kind of you know, everything's in kind of synchronicity

Serena:

That's so cool.

Nicole:

Um, And so I started my brand to really help people think about money differently than just you should pay down your debt and live below your means. It's really looking at money from a mental and emotional standpoint because that's what drives our behaviors. And I feel like we never talk about that and money never gets talked about, which is why I started my podcast. And the reason I started it was to, to talk about all the parts of money. And we never talk about, and to start bringing some of that forward, just like you were saying, like the shame and fear and some of the things like When you go to brunch, like, you don't sit around and talk about your money. You know, it's just like, we talk about all different areas of our life, but money is something that people hold very tightly and keep very secretive. And there's also just a stigma around it's not polite and it's taboo. And I'm like, we got to break that. It's time to break that. And so that's what I'm trying to do.

Serena:

That's exciting. Yeah. I think about it and like, I do talk money with my other entrepreneur friends in like casual settings, but otherwise, no, I don't even talk about it with like my family, like my parents and my siblings and stuff, which is crazy. So yeah.

Nicole:

Yeah. And I, I think people that are in the entrepreneur space, especially people that are online, we tend to be pretty open books and in entrepreneurship, there's there can be, it's, it can be very fearful and a lot of big wins that come with and milestones that come with being an entrepreneur, but also like inconsistent income streams. And so I feel like in that space you know, it's really nice that people can talk about that and share those experiences with other people that are going through similar experiences with their

Serena:

Yeah. I will say that once we connected and before I went on your podcast, I started listening to your podcast and I have intentionally been like, since listening to some of your episodes, been like, I should broach this subject with like my friends and people that I don't normally talk money with. And I have, and it's really interesting to see people's reactions. Like, why are you telling me this? Or like, why are you talking about this? I'm just like, it's just money.

Nicole:

I know. And that's like, the crazy thing is that that's like people's reaction to it is it's like, Wait, why, why are we

Serena:

they get like you

Nicole:

like, okay, let's

Serena:

feel them get like uncomfortable and it's just like calm down. It's okay.

Nicole:

exactly. And that's why I'm like, we have to start, we have to start breaking that down because once we start talking about it more, that's when we can start really seeing that everybody has their own journey and struggles with money. And we're not alone and can break down a lot of the shame and the fear that we kind of keep to ourselves.

Serena:

one of the big reasons why I find it helpful to kind of talk about I think it was like one of your episodes on like dating and talking about money with people that are dating and I was like this could be applied to friendships to of just like being upfront about what you're like money goals are so that you don't get like wrapped up in like, let's go to Sunday brunch every weekend. Or like, let's go out to eat every day or let's go do this thing. Cause it's like, you don't want to miss out on the relationship building stuff. But like, if your friends don't know that you are trying to save, they're going to keep inviting you to these things. So you kind of have to talk about it. So.

Nicole:

And that's actually something that's called loud budgeting. And so when you're, and you would be surprised that when you start talking about like, Oh, Hey, you know what? I'm saving for a vacation or I'm saving for this financial goal. Do you mind if we grab a coffee and go for a walk or do something else? Like, do you want to come over and we can cook dinner together? Like something like that. That's not always about going out and spending money. People actually. Love that. And we'll, I notice a lot of the times we'll say, Oh, you know what? Thank you so much for recommending that because I've been a little tight on money too, and you know, it's kind of like thinking outside the box and being able to be open and honest with your money and say, Oh, that's just a, you know, I'm really saving for something and I have these goals or, and so it's just being honest with people. And I've noticed that people respond really well to that and are kind of in the same boat

Serena:

Yeah. And it's like, they just didn't want to be the first one to be like, I can't, you know?

Nicole:

exactly. Yep.

Serena:

Yeah. So I, on your podcast, you talk a lot, like you interview people and talk a lot about like money stories. So can we, I guess, probably start there because that's kind of where it all started. All begins. So , when you're talking about like a money story, like, what do you mean by that?

Nicole:

Yeah. So everybody has a money story. So it's how did you grow up with money? What were the beliefs that you grew up with around money? And then what has been your journey? And so it's usually, here's how my family related to money. These are the beliefs that I grew up with, or it can be also from other significant people, like past relationships or you know, any type of close relationship where you kind of get these habits and behaviors, which stay with us. whether if we realize it or not, they stay with us. And so, and that creates our money story. And most of the time, our money story is created in childhood. And then we all go through our journey with money. And sometimes we go through periods of debt or where we were doing excessive spending or, you know, more like retail therapy or whatever it is that we're doing. That's our money story. And then it's just, It's really how we relate to our money and kind of our money journey. And so everyone's money journey is unique, but I noticed that it's all kind of, everybody has like the same similarities. And so the reason that I like to talk about it is because a lot of times people don't really think back to how they grew up with money or their beliefs are like, where did I get this belief from? Is this actually my belief? Or is this just something that it was just like, well, this is just how I thought it always was with money. And I don't know any different. And so. It's really the first step to healing your relationship with money and if you want to shift or change any of your money story, like we can change it at any time. Like we can always have a new story. And so, especially if you grew up with a type of money story that you don't want to carry anymore, then you can change it, but you first have to know where did it come from? What is the actual story? And then you can work on shifting it into what do you want it to be? And what do you want to create?

Serena:

so powerful. I did that exercise near the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey, which is like, man, I wish I had learned all of this while I was in corporate. and it's something that I, just like with anything, it's like nothing's ever completely healed, emotionally or with money or whatever. Like you're never completely healed. It's like, it's kind of like ever evolving and like you have to keep revisiting basically. It might not be like revisiting the same parts of it, but especially because you can't work on all of it all at once. So.

Nicole:

It's an evolution.

Serena:

so it's something that like I still tend to reflect on, but yeah, having like journaling that out is a really good exercise and coming back to it and being like, okay, I think like that one I'm good with and you can like cross it off.

Nicole:

Yeah. And a lot of times like these behaviors and these habits or thought process, like the mindset can come back to, and so it is an ongoing journey. It's never like, Oh, you know what? I paid off my debt. I'm healed with my money and, or like, Oh, I worked past that belief, that limiting belief, and now everything's fine. It really is an ongoing journey and more is uncovered, especially the more that you start to be in tune with how you relate to money. More is always revealed and comes to the surface but that's how you get more freedom. And really what I want to help people with. Is for people to enjoy their money and, you know, have fun with their money and to have like this light kind of ease and flow with their money and not like rigidity and scarcity and fear. And so in order to get to that place, you really have to work through those. It's, it really is ongoing.

Serena:

absolutely. So I'm guessing like that's where you start with someone when you work with them is like, let's talk about your money story. Is that something that you have them just like talk to you about or do you have them journal it or like what's your process there?

Nicole:

Yeah, both of those things. And so I usually have clients, I give them a bit of work to do in between sessions, because a lot of this, like being a personal finance coach, it's my job to empower people so that you're not going to need a coach forever. It's, it's my job to, to help people give them the tools and the skills that they need to have. Healthy relationship with their money and really to start thinking about it differently. So a lot of that work is done in between sessions so that when we come to session, you know, we talk about the work that, that they have to journal. And so starting with your money story is always the first place. Cause that's where we really have to see, okay, where do we need to start and begin and healing some of that. And it's always. A combination of, yes, we have to look at the numbers and more of the traditional personal finance things, but really we have to look at what's driving the behaviors. Cause if we don't address the emotional stuff underneath those behaviors, you're going to end up in the same cycle.

Serena:

I've noticed that with All types of coaching, like not just around money, but any type of behavior that you want to change, it's driven by some sort of emotion. So you have to dig really deep. And I think a lot of people are like, I didn't know I was going to have to do this. Do I need to go to therapy?

Nicole:

yeah. I had the same reaction. I just am doing more of a deeper one on one with my mentor. And I've been on this healing journey with her for years. And now we're like, Even doing like more deeper work. I'm like, Oh my gosh, it just, you keep going.

Serena:

Yeah. It's crazy. so you said you're a personal finance coach, so you work on the money story, but ultimately like people generally come to you because why?

Nicole:

So there can be a variety of different reasons. So a lot of what I do is working with women and helping them build their financial independence. And so that it's really about building, there is the sense of independence, but it's building financial confidence so that you're confident that you can feel good about Your money and your decisions around money, which is not linear by any means. You know, everyone's money journey is never linear and it's never going to be perfect. And so I always like people to know that, that, you know, don't expect that it's going to be like perfect and you're never gonna go back into old behaviors or anything like that. You know, it's a process. And but you know how to get back on the beam when, you, veer off track, but yeah, so what I look at is it can be a variety of different things. A lot of times people come to me and they want to pay down debt and they want to be debt free. And so that's one way that I help clients. I also help clients like whether if you have debt or not. Focusing on what your goals are and what your purpose for your money is and really giving it some direction, because that is huge. Like if you don't have tangible written financial goals, then your money can be going all over the place. And so I always like to say that the goals give your money direction. and it. And that's like the exciting part is when you start to think about the things that you want to do with your money and then you create a plan on how to get there. And sometimes some part of the plan is, okay, we have to put things to the side for a little bit until you can pay off your debt or pay off a portion of it. And then, you know, we can start factoring in the goals or some of the other things that people And a lot of it is just really working with people on an emotional level about their money. So it's addressing, do you have any fear? Are you in any type of scarcity? Do you have shame about your money? Like, what is it that we need to work through at that root? Level to really help people transform the relationship with their money. Because when you address it from that perspective, the behaviors start to change on their own. But then I do work with clients at looking at their spending. I always tell everyone that is something that you cannot miss. That is such a vital step because every time that I talk to people, they're like, I don't really have a spending problem, or I know how much I spend on going out. And I'm like, okay, that's great. We still need to see like the exact numbers of what. Is actually happening with your spending because that's where, I mean, that's like the backbone of everything with your money. And it also creates that attention that you give your money, which is something that I noticed people don't, it's just kind of there. People don't really want to look at their bank account. They don't really want to check their spending. And so it's easing some of that fear and that overwhelm and anxiety that comes up and being able to hold people through that. And hold space for them until some of that anxiety eases and they're able to track their spending with more ease and check their bank accounts more. And then we're really able to see, okay, what do we need to do in order to get you to the place that you want to be with your money? And, and like I said, I, I want everybody to really like, enjoy their money and to, to just feel like excitement from it. And. That doesn't necessarily come with more money that comes from how you relate to your money. And people, you know, are kind of like, Oh yeah, but more money would never hurt. And I'm like, yeah, of course. but it's never going to be enough if you don't address the emotional part first. And so that's really how how I work with clients and what I help people with.

Serena:

That's awesome. And that's a really good point. To make two is that like how you feel about money when you have ten dollars in your bank account versus a hundred thousand it goes across the board. You know what I mean? Like if you feel Weird about money when you don't have very much of it, then you're probably still going to feel that same way when you have a lot of it because like your spending is just going to increase with it. And so it's like, at the end of the day, you're still going to end up with like the, the same amount and the same feelings.

Nicole:

Yeah, absolutely. And I see this because I work in wealth management at my, day job. And I. Absolutely. See, it's, a fundamental problem. And so I see people overspend one, people who have like seven, eight figures, like you can still overspend. There's just more zeros and fear and scarcity can still be so prevalent. And you would think like, Oh, if I had X amount of dollars in my bank account, I wouldn't have any fear, but you would be very surprised. And sometimes fear and scarcity can be very sneaky. And it can be, well, I don't want to lose it. And what if I, so it's just, it's really addressing things on a fundamental emotional level because more money does not fix that.

Serena:

Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about kind of what we were talking about at the top of the episode, the shame that comes with being in the finance profession and not having a grasp maybe on your own personal finance. Or feeling like for our listeners, we have a lot of clients who the more that I dive into my own personal finance and my personal relationship with money and learning about investing and stuff, I feel like I've become a way better advisor for my clients too, because that's where it all, it all starts with personal finance. Like, especially for entrepreneurs, like, We have control of our livelihood. So so yeah, what are some of the things that you've seen, I guess, and ways that people can change their outlook with their own personal finance, even regardless of the shame?

Nicole:

yeah, absolutely. And so shame, just to talk on that and how it relates to money is when you carry shame, a feeling that is about you. So that's the difference between shame and guilt is shame is I am bad with money. Guilt is I did something bad with money. I will try better next time. Shame is more of like, I carry this with me and there is a lot of stigma around people who work in any type of industry related to money that people should just know what to do with their money. anybody really knows what to do with their money, even people in the finance industry. And I've had , people come to me and ask, what should I be investing in? How much should I be saving? And they won't know how to respond because it's not their area of expertise. And. No matter what industry you work in, like your area of expertise is what you know. And because we don't teach personal finance at any level of education, really, so not like high school or college, which there's starting to become more states that are making it a requirement, which is great. But Also still, I hope like a class will help, but it's like real life experience is how you learn. And so it's taking that kind of pressure off of, I should just be good with my money or I should know what to do with my money because we're not taught what to do with our money and definitely out in the real world. and banks and everything like they're not teaching people how to pay down debt, you know, because they make money off people having loans and debt. So it's this cycle. And so it's taking the pressure off and being able to address like, Oh, okay. I'm realizing that I have some shame that I'm carrying about this. And then you can start. And what are the biggest ways to break down shame? Is to talk to somebody about it. And you know, like you were saying, it, it's not something that gets talked about so much, like around brunch, but when you start opening the conversation, even if you have one person that you can start to talk to about your money and say, especially because you're with other bookkeepers. And you can start to open up the conversation with other people and talk about it and realize that other people are experiencing that shame, too. But, really what you can do is start to educate yourself and start to, you know, find educational resources that you trust. There's a lot of information out there and sometimes I don't, most of the time actually, I don't agree with a lot of it. Information that's being spread out there. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. But sometimes I'm like, well, I hope that somebody gets like a message that they need to hear that can help them. But just, you know, find educational resources on things that can help you. And Really just start to pay attention to your money. That's always the first place to start is really take time to sit down. And like you said, journal, journaling is such a powerful tool for me. And it is something I have my clients do, but one of the exercises that I love is write a letter to money, like dear money, as if you were writing it to a person. And say everything that you need to say. And I like the first time I did this exercise, I realized I was really angry at money and I was like, Whoa, I didn't realize I was carrying on this anger. And I was like, okay. So it was like, very eye opening for me. And I do that exercise pretty frequently To always check in with where I am, but it's just a good exercise to see where you are and to kind of just let things flow out and see what comes out. But it's really starting to get in tune and pay attention to what makes you anxious, what brings up fear, what brings up shame. Maybe it's paying your bills or when you have to, you know, pay for a medical, but like, start paying attention to how you're feeling with your money really on a daily basis. And this is going to take some intention in the beginning because we're just not used to thinking about how we're feeling about our money. So it takes some intention in the beginning and then it becomes second nature, but to really start paying attention to, Oh, you know what? When I'm. Scrolling on Amazon and, buying things kind of frivolously, that doesn't really feel good to me. That creates some anxiety. And so it's really starting to pay attention to how you're feeling with your money in general and also good things. Cause sometimes it's not always the bad things. Like what are the things that make you feel good about your money? And maybe it can be opening up my Roth IRA and seeing You know, the balance grow or seeing how much I've saved so far this year. So like, what are the good things and pay attention to the good things. What are the things that don't make you feel so good? And then that's where you're going to be able to tell where there's going to be some work that needs to be done.

Serena:

Awesome. Yeah, I've, I don't think I've heard of that exercise. I'm gonna, I'm gonna try it. That's good. Yeah. And it's a good thing to like do frequently because your feelings toward the money can change for sure. yeah, I love that. And so anyone listening, I encourage you to go do that journaling exercise and then next time you're at brunch with your friends, talk about money.

Nicole:

Yeah. And you can just bring it up casually, you know, you don't have to say like, Oh, Hey, what's your debt situation right now? You know, like, but you can start bringing things up like very slowly and see, like I said, if you can find people like one or two friends that you feel can hold space for you and can hold that, You know, have that conversation. Other people are also looking to talk about money. And most of the time when I start talking about money and opening up the conversation, people are like, Oh, wow, that felt really good to talk about it. Even like somebody was just like, it's so much fun to talk about it. I'm like, I know it's just, you know, you can ease into it and just kind of find the people that can hold that space for you. And everybody might not be able to, and that's okay.

Serena:

Yeah. That's a good point. That is a very good point. Okay. So back to the shame thing. That is when you were talking, it sounds like you've read some Brene Brown.

Nicole:

Oh yeah. Yeah. I love

Serena:

that's where I first got familiar with the same thing, but I can't remember what book it was. Or maybe it was a talk that I heard of hers, but one of the other things too is like shame is like one of the lowest of the low vibrations. It's like kind of down there with like depression. And so when you think of it that way, it's like, that is not the energy that one I want to have around money, but two, that is definitely not the energy that's going to bring more money in.

Nicole:

Yes, absolutely. And that's like a big thing that I have people start looking at. And first of all, I love Brene Brown. I love her. Absolutely love everything about her and her message and her vibe and how she communicates about these really deep difficult topics in such a light way that is so relatable. And I always feel I'm like, she's talking right to me, you know? But yeah, it's the energy of how we're relating to our money. And when we hold onto that shame or even any scarcity and fear, , that's energetically how we're relating to money. And that's the mindset that can keep us stuck and where we are. And so it's noticing that and really starting to pay attention to it. Being able to cue in to what's happening with you energetically, like in your body too, is so important. And then you can start to think about how do you want to feel about your money and what do you need to do in order to, break out of that place that you're in, of the fear or the shame. And so it's like, the number one question is whose fear is that? Cause usually when it's fear or shame, it's not ours. And so it's coming into touch with where did I learn this from? Where did I pick this up from? How old is this fear and the shame? And so it's like going back to the money beliefs and then really tracing it back and saying like, where did I pick this up? And then you'll be able to kind of shift it that way of once you're able to understand it, but then on an energetic level, you really want to start paying attention to, am I blocking money from coming into me? Flowing to me, or am I in an energetic and mindset place where I'm really thinking about, one, it's, it's kind of trust and faith, you know, trusting and having faith that everything is okay. Everything is going to be okay. Even if you're going through a tough time and really paying attention to, are you holding onto so much fear and the other getting to the other side of fear is turning over it. You know, into faith, but in between those two things, you have to take some action because we can't just, you know, we have to do things. We have to take action in order for us to get a different result, but it's your, your mindset and how you are feeling about your money, like in your body and thinking about it is really going to create the energy of how you're relating to your money and how your money is relating to you.

Serena:

Yeah. That's such a, a good point. We could just totally go down the rabbit hole here on like energetics and stuff, which is yeah. One thing that I like, a lot of people may or may have not heard like that whole be, do you have thing? Like the normal way of thinking, or tradition, I guess traditional way of thinking is people are like, Oh, I want to have this. So I'm going to do this and then I will be happy or whatever, right? But we actually have to shift our state to be already what we want over here and then We take the action, do the thing, and then we have the thing. So it's like yeah, I don't, if anyone hasn't heard that yet, and this is brand new, there's lots of other people that talk about it way more, like, put together than I do. I listen to that kind of stuff a lot, but but yeah, that's one thing that. Yeah, you want to shift your internal state and like your actual like feelings that you have in your body about stuff before things will actually change, which was just like a huge eye opener to me because I always, like, I went through life thinking that I just, was in general a less happy person. Like, people have their baselines, right? And I just felt like mine was so much lower than most everybody else. I was like, why can't I be that happy? And, and I've had to do a lot of work around that. And it's still, there's still some days where I'm like, Hmm.

Nicole:

hmm.

Serena:

and it's not necessarily like, The toxic positivity stuff that I'm talking about either, like, it's okay to feel shitty.

Nicole:

I mean, we're human. Even, you know, no matter how much healing you've done or meditation or whatever it is that you do, we're human.

Serena:

Yeah. Yeah. okay. So if someone, where is the, first of all, where's the best place for somebody to connect with you? And then I have another question.

Nicole:

So I'm on Instagram@WallStreetGirlNextDoor and also on TikTok. And you can find my podcast, The Money Diaries, on Spotify and Apple. And those are the best ways to get in touch with me. And I am launching some new programs at the beginning of the year. So I'm going to be starting a monthly money healing circle. So just like we were talking about giving people a safe space to come talk about their money and every month is going to have a different. it's going to be a group zoom call. I'm going to keep it very small and intimate. And then there's going to be just like some journal prompts and it'll come with a one on one session with me too. And so it, it's really just about, I want people to have a safe space to come to talk about their money, with other people who are interested. Also want that. And so I'm really excited about that. And I work with people one on one and so yeah, if you want to, it's really anybody who is ready to transform and heal their relationship with their money, somebody who wants to have a different relationship with their money and wants to make some changes in their life that they need somebody to help guide them. And I just know that it is so helpful to have support. with staying accountable, but also like through the hard things. Sometimes it's not easy. And so having support can make all the difference to get you to where you want to be and to have the relationship with your money that you want and to reach your financial goals. You know, whatever it is that you want, if it's, whether it's paying off debt, saving for your first home, taking a vacation, you know, any of the things that you want to do, having somebody there to help guide you on how to get there.

Serena:

Awesome. When you work with people one on one, do you broach the investments subject? Do you give a little bit of guidance on like what they should be doing with their money or? What's the level there? Cause I know there's regulations.

Nicole:

Yeah. I, I don't, I keep the two very separate, because I work at a bank. And so anything investment, if anybody has any questions or anything about investments, I always tell them I have to talk to them through my, work channel. And so unfortunately anything investment related, you know, I can give general guidance, but anything that if somebody has. Questions about how should I be investing? Or here's what's in my IRA that has to go. That's through my, my day job.

Serena:

That makes sense. It's good to know. okay. And then my last question for you, since my audience is bookkeepers and accountants, generally when I bring on business owners that are not in our field, I like to ask them, what is one thing that whether you have a bookkeeper or not, like what would be the biggest game changer for your, if you had a bookkeeper? For them to do when it comes to helping you manage your money in your business.

Nicole:

Well, I think that honestly a bookkeeper goes very hand in hand with somebody who is helping you with your money. It's somebody who has, is seeing everything like your expenses. And so I always feel like having somebody that you feel comfortable sharing that information with is always. Super helpful and somebody that can explain to you maybe some things to do to make your spending or your business more efficient. That would be really helpful to me. And also like some things that I could do for maybe like taxes or not something that I know about or like tax deductions. Like when I was studying for my CFP, the tax, section was not how my brain operated. I found that out very quickly. And so but what are some things that maybe tax efficient things that I can do in my business, like write offs or things like that would be very helpful.

Serena:

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on here. It's been fun swapping podcasts and getting to know you. And yeah, so everyone makes sure you connect with Nicole online and go listen to her podcast. It's really good. and yeah, thank you so much.

Nicole:

was a pleasure to be here.

Serena:

Talk to you soon.

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