The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

170 ⎸ [ND] Starting a Neurodivergent Bookkeeping Business with Amy Burgess

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 170

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In this interview episode, we're continuing our neurodivergent series and diving into the inspiring journey of Amy Burgess, a fellow neurodivergent and brilliant bookkeeper. If you're curious about building a business that truly reflects who you are and want some killer insights into making it happen, you don't wanna miss this one.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • newer bookkeeping biz owner
  • her path into bookkeeping
  • how bookkeeping works for ND mind
  • tips for operating with AuADHD
  • tips for new bookkeepers


Resources mentioned in this episode:


Meet Amy

Amy is a neurodivergent bookkeeper and the founder of Jointly Balanced. Her boutique firm offers financial management services to socially conscious small business owners. Her passion is making finances more accessible, inclusive, and tailored to meet diverse needs.

Connect with Amy

📱IG: @jointlybalanced


Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @ambitiousbookkeeper

For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:


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serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper podcast. This is another interview in the NeuroDivergent series that I'm currently, putting out there. And I'm super excited to have Amy Burgess on. She is a NeuroDivergent bookkeeper herself. And so we're going to just dive into all things around, around this. so, Hey, Amy, how are you today? Go ahead and introduce yourself.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

I'm good. Thanks, Serena. I'm Amy Burgess. I have a boutique, small, just getting going, a little, bookkeeping firm, called Jointly Balanced. And I mean, now I just, Found myself in the, the niche of serving other neurodivergent, people. So I've kind of started to lean in towards that. And, um, yeah, I guess that's

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah, awesome. I'm super excited to like chat about. Some of the, just different ways that you operate and then what you provide to clients that support their neurodivergence. You know what I mean? So I guess we could start with internal operations. you said you, you're just getting started. So what was, what were you doing before this business, this bookkeeping business

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

I mean, it was very all over the place, but I mean, now that I know I'm there, I was diagnosed very late in life, just within the last couple of years. So like, After is 40. So it was like, I'd gone through most of my life not knowing, that I was dealing with that. So, , it's kind of like, I, I used to be very, like, I would just think that I couldn't really get anything going. It was kind of a failure because I had many students. Started and stopped,

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

ventures?

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

and forth between working for myself, having that not working and filling that in with, um, way back when, when my English degree was not, doing anything for me. I took a certification for like bookkeeping through the community college. but of course they don't really, they just teach you how to do that. And then they don't tell you really like, well, how do you, if you were going to get your own clients or if you were gonna even get a job, because I found myself like, you know, if I hadn't had any formal corporate like office environment, they just weren't really, you know, I never found anyone willing to kind of take me on as okay, like we'll, be the one to Be like, trust your skills and that we can, that you can deal with this. But so it's always felt like that was like a pushback too. It was like, I'm just like now officially just leaning into the fact that like, I'm going to treat this like, a business and actually go into it because I have, done stuff on the side. I've done volunteer bookkeeping for nonprofits and, like contract work here and there, but like nothing that really, so like, I think a lot of my like confidence issues, like once I realized I had this combination of I have ADHD plus autism, like. I'm autistic and the ADHD and they kind of fight each other and create a nice unique balance. But when I found that out, it let me realize kind of why I've had the difficulties I've had. And then once knowing that, then kind of create, be like, Oh, like, It's not that I can't do this. It's just that I have to maybe find different approaches and different ways around it. So, so yeah, once I figured out, like, I mean, I'd met other people with ADHD, realized that the whole career, like bouncing all over the place seemed very common. So I used to just think that like, Oh no, that's going to hold me back. And I, I'm not one of those people that can say I've been doing this for solidly for, you know, 20 years or have like, all this experience and stuff like that. I mean, and I do when I add it up and kind of piece it all together, but, it's kind of having to look at that and then, you know, Trust yourself to be like, Oh, okay. I, I think I, I know more than I give myself credit for. I

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah. Especially from all of those experiences, you know what I mean? Like everything you've been through all these different experiences for a reason, but you can draw from those and pull them into your bookkeeping business, which I think is really important. Really valuable. what do you think, what is it about bookkeeping and the work that we do that you feel is a good fit for, being neurodivergent

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

well, just for

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

your own experience?

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

own lived experience. Yeah. I don't, I never want to talk for anyone else. Cause I know it's like, you know, I mean, Everyone, you know, it's affected differently and everything. But for me, I think it was, it's latching onto that, kind of like, it's a balance of like the puzzle, just kind of like trying to figure stuff out for people. Like, they don't want to get into that and figure it out, but like, actually, like, if like, I can get into like a cleanup job for like, just Getting in there because I want to like find what's going on and then at the end help somebody so you get that. and I think that's like a thing that really drew me towards deciding to work for myself because I didn't want to work for somewhere where I was just back in a room doing bookkeeping and it got sent off and someone else is doing the front facing client work and stuff like that because then I realized that I'm not getting that, like, that part of it. And then, you know, it's like, yeah, I actually like, like once you like get into it and you're the one that's been working and their stuff, like, then I also want to be the one having those conversations, with people. Cause otherwise it feels very detached for me. I mean,

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

I can relate to that. I like to see the full cycle through, you know what I mean? So I totally get that. so do you prefer doing like project work versus the monthly or do you feel good about both or where's your preference? Like if you had to choose how to fill your time all the time, what would you prefer to be doing?

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

I don't know, probably like a mix. I mean the monthly, I do like kind of like once you have that connection with a client and like get with them, I mean, I definitely Like the long term like relationships you can build and because you kind of, you get through that initial stuff and then just kind of know how each other work and find that good, like flow of like working together. you know, I mean like project work can be something that's like, it can be fine for the time, but yeah, I definitely don't think I would like want to do that completely and not have the ongoing client work where you're really get to.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah. What are some of the things that you've discovered for yourself in your business and how you operate that you think, have contributed to, uh, your success, whether it is like the way you work, like the way you schedule your week or the way that you're able to connect with clients. Like, what are some of the main things that you've set up for yourself that you're like this? I know this really works for me and I'm going to continue doing it.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

yeah, I think just making, well, making plans and like planning it out, not just winging it because that doesn't exactly ever help or work out. But, but also leaving space for like flexibility within that because, and I think, like, my brain, I have to really, I have a really hard, like, line of, like, I want to, like, black and white, like, thinking, and I want to put things in their nice, like, little boxes, like, this is wrong and this is right, and I always have to kind of check myself with that because that's, you know, it's not how things are. There's things that, you know, everything kind of falls in between, and I always have to, And again, just like knowing that about yourself, like I, you can always like check in and be like, you know, like when I'm thinking this and just like when I like first started getting a thing, like, I mean, as like having to kind of find what. Marketing and anything like that worked for me because, I mean, I was just trying to take people's formulas and just thinking that this is the right way to do it. You know, this is how you do it. Why isn't this working? and yeah, so just like at a lot of points, just, you know, stepping back and realizing if something isn't working to try to figure out like where, like I could like tweak things and, and make it easier. You know, like,

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

instead of just trying to force it.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah, which honestly, any business owner can take that advice, whether you're neurodivergent or not. Everyone gets kind of like sucked into like, well, that works for the other person. So everything works if you want to follow that process. Right. But it's like, does it work with the way that we want to work and our values and our, you Like, our schedules and the way our brain works. Um, because it can be like trudging through quicksand. If, if it's something that just like is really not in alignment. So you mentioned marketing. Is there a specific way of marketing that you were trying that you were like, this was not working for me versus what you're doing now that feels really good and seems to be working?

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

well, I think just like trying to just pump out like social media posts and stuff like that and just feeling like, yeah. I mean, like, I guess that can work to an extent for visibility, but then just like doing that being like nothing's happening and then having to realize that oh, well, it's like just kind of tip. Blast that all out there isn't necessarily doing anything for you. It's like, I mean, it's basically just, needing to have, like, actually have conversations with people, and do that. But, like, that's not what everyone was talking about. Cause that isn't the nice, like, fun way to, to do things. So I think. Like, yeah, just having to learn that the approaches, while they might be slower, they're actually kind of like, they'll work for you, and you'll end up with better clients, I think, overall. Anyways, taking the time to actually, find out who, like, you connect with rather than just, just, oh, I blasted this in front of X number of people, and some eyeballs saw it, and, like, take that approach.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

So you mentioned that you recently started attracting more neurodivergent, business owners. So do you have clients that are in that realm too? And is there something that like, you're able to do differently for them that maybe they weren't getting that level of support before or any like pointers that you have for people that are listening maybe also like maybe this is a market I should look into supporting as well.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

Yeah, definitely. I think like I found a lot of it is probably going to happen in the initial like onboarding and that part. I think it's, the time where people are the most like, especially if they've had. I mean, I've found a lot of people just have had kind of, they have those bad experiences that they didn't, that didn't really work for them. And, they kind of come in carrying that with them and, you know, you kind of have to like ease them in, let them know that like, yeah, like I'm like, that I, I am going to like work with you. And that's why like, I mean, I did go back and forth, like feeling like, oh, do I really want to be, Do, do I want to be open and talking about this and lean into this like thing. But then I realized like, well, especially, I mean, I may not have known it anyway, since I'd, been in a thing, but like, had I been diagnosed and known, like, I mean, I also, even if I did, I hadn't seen anybody openly really. Talking about that. So I guess also I just want to like add to the people so if they'll see that like they can know, like, oh, that doesn't mean this isn't for me just because, you just kind of have to like, like, again, a lot of things might not. fit and that's how I try to kind of approach things with and I could just draw on like my experiences too because I've I know I get that like super like just like feeling of if I have to talk to like a lawyer or you know like like a person where you already have that like you know you're not going in with the information you feel like they have the you know kind of have that hanging over you and I mean, it's like, you go in there hoping that they're going to, like, also not just be like, oh, like, disregard how you're feeling about that and just try to be like, you know. I think just, like, kind of, like, acknowledging. Guys, again, like, I've just realized the more open that I've been, then people are open to new things. Because nobody's, if there's nothing that You've said, so just try to be the first person to put that out there and like, let them know, hey, if you need, like, if you have communication preferences or if you have this, then like, and let them, and they don't, you know, that lets them decide. They don't have to disclose anything. That's like, anything could help. Like, it could help anyone who it's like that. So they don't like feel like it opens up if they want to, they can disclose, but also they can just, choose what works best for them and feel they're still getting that support if the, even if they don't,

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Because everyone, everyone has their own communication preferences and how they retain and learn best. And that's something that I've always had on my, like, onboarding intake form. Or maybe it's even on the proposal when they sign up, like sign the proposal or whatever, there's a section on the bottom. That's like, what's your preferred method of communication, phone, email, text, or other. And might be like controversial because on the one hand, to have operations streamlined, right? And you want to have all the communication in one place so that things don't get lost. But on the other hand, if you are interested in serving in a more accessible way, it requires some flexibility. I do give my clients option of email or text message cause we have like open phone. So it's not like it's my personal number. I didn't have that option before whenever I only had, a Google voice, although I could have, but now we have open phone and the whole team can see the whole communication. You can schedule text messages, you can all sorts of stuff. So there's that. And then a couple of my clients are verbal like processors. And so they want either a monthly meeting or to be able to communicate with me through Voxer. that's not something that I, you know, openly like advertise to people, but if they ask for it, heck yeah, I will communicate with them through Voxer. And I just have to be mindful and like remember to copy whatever communication over into our internal Slack channel so that the whole team is aware of what's being communicated. You know what I mean? So it's like, it can still work. You can still have communication in multiple places as long as like you have a system for it. capturing all of it and making sure nothing falls through the cracks. but yeah, so that's kind of how I handle it, with the communication stuff. And I think that's a big deal for clients because if you talk to like almost every business owner out there that has had a bookkeeper or an accountant, their biggest complaint is lack of communication.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

Or if it is, it's just a very, like

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

a lot of friction.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

not personalized, not personalized communication, like, like just kind of spitting out a report. And that's it.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah, which, you know, if, if that's what works for you too, if like, you don't want to have that deeper communication, then that's fine. Set your business up for whatever works for you. But I've been really interested in hearing from other like neurodivergent business owners and how Like they, process things and what they find helpful in a bookkeeper that understands them. And then also talking to, I think you're the first bookkeeper so far in my series that I'm talking to that is neurodivergent and maybe some of them are also kind of targeting that market as well. So yeah, I've just been like really curious, like, well, how do you operate that sets you apart or that is like more inclusive for your clients and things like that? It's been, it's been really fun learning and I've, I get ideas from these too. I'm like, Oh, I can do this better, do that better for any business owner. Like these things help for all business owners, , but yeah. And then each of us are different too in our preferences of how we work. Like one thing you said. is planning. And I think obviously that's valuable for everyone again. But some people can just retain things in their mind and not lose track of time that we do. So like, I live by my calendar on my phone. I live by reminders and timers. And, and like, I was explaining this to one of my friends recently because they were like, Oh, I need to get better at that. And I was like, Yeah, it's been a process to get to where I'm at right now, but like the bigger game changers for me is like carving out time each weekend to sit down and look at the calendar ahead, visually write out what's happening in my planner so that I can like, it just like helps solidify things. And then it makes me more aware of like what I have coming up that I might need to carve out time a day or two ahead of in order to manage the work. So I'm not like scrambling the night before. Procrastination because I'm like, Oh crap, I have this meeting I have to be prepared for or whatever that. And then like, I have recurring timers on my phone for specific things that I have to do every day. Like that, if I didn't have that, they wouldn't get done as simple as taking my vitamins. And calling my children when I don't have them, like, because I lose track of time. And if there's not a timer that buzzes, I'm like, Oh no, they're probably already in bed. So I don't know. I think we need to normalize that a little more.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

definitely get that. Yeah. Like I too, just like, well, it's something that works for me as I've realized I kind of like time block and make days for things cause that's just easier for me if like this day is like I have client calls or like, or I know this day I don't have any. meetings, any outward things to do, I can just, you know, get into client work and not know I'm going to like worry about missing something that's coming up. So that's really helpful to me

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of doing like the theme days because I'm the same. If there's calls, Sprinkled out in the day. I just know I'm not going to get any client work done or any project stuff done, like other than checking email. Like I just don't plan on it. So I have to have full days where there's no calls in order for me to like focus on actual work. just even before we went on this interview, I had like a little bit of extra time between my last call that I wasn't really expecting. And I went down a rabbit hole in my emails. I was late to this call. So it's like, even then I, yeah, you lose track. And I'm like, Oh, I have time to answer this email. And then it's been 15 or 20 minutes now late. for anyone listening, who is thinking about starting a bookkeeping business? I always like to ask this question. I don't always ask it, but when I remember to ask it. since you are like you said that you're kind of at the beginning stages, kind of newer in your business of like kind of going all in, you're really close to all the stuff that comes with that. And so do you have any, pointers or words of encouragement, even either or, or both for anyone listening who is thinking about starting a bookkeeping business And just hasn't really made that leap yet.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

I think a big thing I had to get used to is like to not let yourself get too isolated. like even for me, I mean, I Mostly love, curling up at home, being quiet and everything. But so I kind of like, I think it surprised myself, like how much if you just like realize you don't have like natural, like as much like interaction, like throughout the day and just to like really like acknowledge that I can and need like help like I you know I need resources and I need like other things like not just having to just think that I can just do everything on my own has been yeah like leaning into that. Doing like a co working has been really useful for me is then I realized kind of why because that you know can be called As like body doubling in the neurodivergent space to be like, and like kind of why that might be helpful to me, but it can be helpful to anyone too. that can be helpful to kind of give yourself some accountability to actually hold yourself to, like, I need to do this work today.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah. One thing that I do, I host coworking sessions for the folks in my VIP program and I've participated in other coworking sessions within other networks and groups. And one thing that makes me nervous about them, anytime I agree to them, it's like, I actually really do want to get stuff done and I don't want to be chit chatting, but it is helpful to be on a coworking session. So just like, if you are going to do a coworking session, just be like, if you're going to be the one hosting it or you're not the one hosting, it's totally appropriate to ask like what the structure's like, because I haven't joined some coworking sessions because I'm afraid it's going to be too chit chatty. But I would really benefit from it. You know what I mean? Not the chit chat, but like just being in a co working session. And so that's one thing that like the way that I set mine up for anyone listening, if this is something you're interested in doing, I highly recommend it. But, we do 90 minutes and I use a Pomodoro timer. So we do like three 25 minute chunks of focused work. And then in between we do a five minute break. And I just encourage everyone to, like, get up, go get some water, go to the bathroom, and unmute during that five minutes. And then after that, we go back on mute, you can turn your cameras off or whatever, and then I put on, like, focus music, so that, like, there is no chit chatting happening, but people can chat in the, in the chat if they have questions for me, like, because I'm also there to support them, and it's, like, a facilitator, but you don't have to do that piece. You could just be like, we're not talking. Everyone's going to be muted and we're just going to focus. so yeah, being able to facilitate those things is also a skill, but, for hopefully

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

I hadn't, yeah, I guess I've gotten lucky. I haven't even, Ran into that, but yeah, I don't think I would like that as

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Yeah. So, well, thank you so much for sharing your experience on the podcast. I'm hoping With this interview series that people just have more awareness around the different possibilities to structure their businesses, the different things that other business owners might need. And I just, I'm super grateful that you were willing to come on here and chat about this and spread the knowledge and awareness so that we can just have a more inclusive business world. So thank you.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

Yes. Thanks for inviting

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Where's the best place for people to connect with you if they're interested in, being part of your network?

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

Just kind of like still getting all my online stuff set up, but, just probably through Instagram, jointly balanced.

serena_1_09-18-2024_113932:

Awesome. I'll link that in the show notes. And so yeah, if you are also a neurodivergent. bookkeeper and you want to connect with Amy, please do that on Instagram. Thank you again, Amy, so much. I really appreciate it.

amy-burgess_1_09-18-2024_133932:

All right. Thank you.

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