The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

169 ⎸ [ND] Managing Business & Home with ADHD with Megs Crawford

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 169

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This is the first of a series we will be having on the podcast, all around neurodivergent businesses & bookkeepers. You can find these episodes by searching [ND] in brackets on our blog.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • How to declutter & create systems in your home
  • Operating a business with ADHD
  • Planning your day in your business
  • How to support a business owner with ADHD as their bookkeeper


Resources mentioned in this episode:


Meet Megs

As a professional organizer with ADHD, Megs understands the unique challenges and untapped brilliance of the ADHD brain. She's passionate about helping others with ADHD cultivate organized spaces that foster peace and ignite creativity. Beyond physical and digital organization, Megs is an ADHD coach and does digital decluttering sessions via zoom for clients with a focus on the power of self-belief – a core principle for thriving with ADHD.

Megs is also a speaker, sharing her message of how ADHD can be a superpower when understood and embraced. When not organizing, you can find her with her two daughters, beloved pets, and supportive husband. She finds joy in yoga, singing, and coloring, reflecting her ongoing commitment to personal growth.


Connect with Megs

📱 @organizing.an.adhd.brain on instagram and tiktok


Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @ambitiousbookkeeper

For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:


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Serena:

Welcome to the ambitious bookkeeper podcast. Today I am interviewing, someone for the first of our series. Around neurodivergent businesses and bookkeepers, and you'll be able to find all of these episodes by searching. N D in brackets. Wherever you're listening to this podcast or viewing this podcast, but we are going to have, , on other neurodivergent, business owners, as well as neurodivergent bookkeepers over the course of several episodes. So if this is something that is interesting to you, or you've been curious about how to support people, in this realm, these episodes are going to be for you, even if you're not, you're going to hear some valuable information and have probably some perspective. Shifts on how you can support all types of business owners. And without further ado, we're going to hop right into this episode. I did forget to ask megs to share where people can connect with her. So I've linked those in the show notes. You can connect with her. Instagram or Tik TOK at. Organizing dot N dot ADHD dot brain and that's Instagram and Tik Tok. And we will have those linked in the show notes without further ado. Let's welcome. Our guest megs. Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper podcast. Today I have the first of many guests that I'm going to have on us around a series that I'm doing, around neurodivergence and owning a business slash bookkeeping and all of the things that that encompasses. And so welcome Meg, I'm super excited to have you. And although you're not a bookkeeper, you are a professional organizer and I'll let you introduce yourself and give you your background.

Megs:

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. I'm super pumped about this topic. I'm so glad that you're sharing. And yeah, I am a professional organizer with ADHD. I do mostly coaching people online, teaching them how to have less and how to be organized. There's the stigma out there that says that people with ADHD aren't organized people. And I want to change that. I used to have a ton of stuff in my home that was overwhelming me. And it felt like I was being dragged in so many different directions, not living my life to the fullest. And so I decided to change that. And then I started my business and I'm thrilled to be where I am. And yeah, thank you so much for

Serena:

Yeah, I'm super excited to dive into this. From the perspective of, like I said, when, before we hit record, my goal is to one, help spread awareness of like the different needs of a neurodivergent business owner. If you're a bookkeeper trying to help someone that might be struggling with things that you don't struggle with. and how to approach things., I think we can get some good insights from you there as a business owner who is not a bookkeeper. And then, later on, I'll also be interviewing bookkeepers who are neurodivergent and also, successful in their businesses. So, um, Just like spreading awareness about this whole, community, I guess, that exists. And, and yeah, maybe there will be some golden nuggets that people take away and we'll learn how to work better with others at the very least. so yeah, I'm really excited to dive in and, I didn't ask you if there was anything off the table before we hit record, but

Megs:

Yeah. Oh no. Open book.

Serena:

are you diagnosed, undiagnosed, or like, how is that whole figuring things out process? Is it something you've been like knowing you've lived with your whole life or was it a late in life diagnosis?

Megs:

Late in life diagnosis for me probably about two years ago. I Had seen all the memes and the videos and I'm like, this is so interesting. I feel like I could be ADHD I started talking to my neighbor next door and he's like here go see my my psychiatrist He has ADHD pretty significantly And, you know, I remember taking Adderall when I was in college and I was like, wow, I could get so much done. These kids are so lucky that they can work with this because I couldn't seem to get anything done. Or stay focused in a way that I felt like I was on top of things or in control in any way. And when I finally got diagnosed, I went through a period of denial where I couldn't imagine it. Being a 30, 36 year old woman, two years ago, just getting diagnosed. I just thought, I was like, there's absolutely no way that I've gone my whole life, not knowing that that was, this was a thing that I've lived with. And when I started to find acceptance in what ADHD is and how it's affected me. It all started to make sense. And so I would replay some of the things that would happen in high school and in college. And I'm like, Oh, this is all fitting in to what ADHD is. And through that I was in the corporate world still when I had found out I had ADHD. And so it was through this journey of self acceptance and understanding how my brain worked to really understand that that wasn't a place I wanted to be anymore. And so I left the corporate world to start my own business. And to understand more about how we handle executive function and time blindness and all of these other things that come along with the way that our brain uniquely

Serena:

Okay. All right. Yeah, um, I'm in the phase where I've not seen a psychiatrist, but I've had multiple people be like, you definitely, you definitely have it. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, I've been functioning and coping well with it my whole life. And so that's also another thing. It's like, if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, I think I might have it too, but I'm like, okay, not having an official diagnosis. That's kind of where I'm at. I'm like, I've, I'm in a really good place in my life and my business, and I have ways of operating that are helpful, which I'm sure we'll dive into. And so I, right now I'm okay with just like, not, I'm not necessarily in denial, but I'm okay not having a diagnosis and just continuing to live my life in a way that works for me. So,

Megs:

I just love that so much because I don't think that you need to get a diagnosis unless you're really seeking out the medicinal route, but really it's about acceptance. If you accept that that is a part of you and that your brain works a certain way, Then you get to start to adapt to the way that your brain works to understand that you can't fit into a box. And so you develop these systems, as you said, that work for you. Where you don't need that additional help, at least at this point, which I love. I love, love,

Serena:

Yeah, so you were in corporate and then you got the diagnosis and then you all of a sudden had a business idea. Let's walk through. Let's walk through how that's

Megs:

Bing, bang, boom! Easy peasy. Just start a business. I was like, ADHD? I got the diagnosis. I, gosh, I had done so much in the corporate world. I was in leadership. I had dabbled in project management. I was actually getting my master's in project management. I'm halfway through. I had gotten my certificate. There were so many things that I was working on and I had really big plans to climb the corporate ladder. And I also had this realization of how unhappy I was in the corporate world. I wasn't as fulfilled as I had once been. I didn't have the passion I had once had and I couldn't get it anywhere. I would like, I would come up with these ridiculous projects and my boss would be like, can you just like do the work that you need to do? And I'm like, no, cause it's not filling up my cup. I want to do something more. And I also was drinking at the time and I decided that I needed to make a pretty big decision. I needed to. Understand if I was drinking because I was unhappy at work, or if I was unhappy at work because I was drinking. So I ended up quitting drinking, and then I was completely miserable at work. There wasn't even that, like, helpful, let me unwind at the end of the night type of thing. So that opened my eyes even more. I hired a career coach, and through working with her and starting to ask myself some of these critical questions that I had never asked myself before, like, what do I really want to do? What is my purpose? What are some things that I've always loved to do? What are some things that I could give a speech about? So on and so forth. That's when I decided to leave the corporate world. And it was, I did not have a plan. This is my impulsive nature taking over. But I asked my husband one day, like, what have I just left? What if I just decided to say goodbye? And he's like, do it, just do it. And it was cool. And, I was, I was making the money in our relationship at that point. He was making money too. He had a job and luckily his job kind of offered him a bonus structure as soon as I left the corporate world. So it worked out in our favor, not having planned. However, I left thinking I was going to go back into the corporate world because that's what I've known my whole life. And I did this exercise where I wrote a letter to myself just talking about who my boss was and what kind of flexibility I had in my. And then I realized I probably would need to create that for myself because I don't know that there's a dream company out there that could really handle my needs. And so originally I didn't know what I wanted to do for a business, but I have been decluttering my home for over eight or nine years. Just trying to understand like how to let go and how to have less. And adopt almost a minimalist lifestyle, but in a way that makes sense for me, where I still get to have shiny things that I really love, but less that's distracting me from the life that I want to live. And it was through that that I decided I wanted to become a professional organizer. And not necessarily for people with ADHD, but through my work with people with ADHD and myself, understanding how my own brain operates. It made more sense to have that be my focal point. And then eventually start a podcast that talked to that. Like, what does it look like to actually make a plan for your life that you can thrive with?

Serena:

Oh, I love that. yeah, let's talk about the clutter thing.

Megs:

Totally.

, Serena:

because before we hit record, you had mentioned that you felt like really overwhelmed a lot. And, yeah, I can totally relate to that. Clutter definitely, like, it makes my skin itch.

Megs:

Yeah.

Serena:

You know what I mean? Like, if there's like a lot of clutter, it just feels like the items are sucking the life out of you, almost. And I don't know if that resonates with anyone listening, but it has a real impact on your mental health. I will say that. So it's a need out there to educate people and help them come up with tools and ways to, and it's like, it's just like with managing anything else. I just finished a presentation in a group about money, about managing money and creating habits and things that stick. And it's the same thing with like decluttering, right? Where it's like, you have to start small. You have to build the habit, build the muscle for things to really take hold because, like, if you don't have those habits in place of, like, staying organized, once you organize, you're going to be doing a whole overhaul every so often and it's going to stress you out. So, um, what's the process that you take people through on that? Yeah.

Megs:

it's different for everyone just kind of based on what their needs are. But I would say when you're decluttering, which is really where we first start and decluttering and organizing are going to be two different things. Decluttering is the process of getting things out of your life that just don't belong anymore. But with people with ADHD, it's not easy to say, Like the Marie Kondo method, does this item bring me joy? And in some cases, it does. It really depends on which area of your, your life we're in. But then there's the poop method that's going around. Have you

Serena:

I don't know. I might

Megs:

like five people sent me this the other day. They were like, If this item had poop on it, would you wash it off and keep it or would you throw it away? And then there's your decision. Sure, those are like funny, great methods, but it's more along the lines of the emotional attachment that can come along with the clutter and like even as far as a paperclip. Like, I know in my life, I never use paperclips, but at the same time, I'm like, but what if, what if I come across a life that I need a paperclip and then I don't have one? I'm gonna keep it for that reason. But the truth is, is if we think through that a little bit more, and I'm in a life where I now need paperclips, I'm just gonna buy them again because I could go to the store and buy them and it's not a huge deal to go out and replace it. So I, you know, I had a, a digital session with a client the other day and we were talking about pens. I was like, tell me, how many pens do you feel like is a realistic amount? Like, to have in your home. And do you have a favorite pen? Because I know with me, it has to write a certain way. Like, I don't know, it's the texture, it's the feeling of what a pen is like in my hands. So, I actually don't use any other pens. That's the only kind of pen I keep in my house. And, but for others, it's different. So, I ask those questions, like, how many pens? Like, do your kids use pens? When do you need a pen? Right? Like, these questions that we never typically ask ourselves because we just think that we have to have. It's like we have our own store of sorts with all of this stuff everywhere, but the inventory has become so overwhelming that we don't have it compartmentalized. So when we actually need something, we have no idea where to go. At the same time, some of us have this like clutter pile that's so organized that we know exactly where it is, that we don't want to put it away because we know if we put it away, it's out of sight, out of mind, and we have no idea where

Serena:

hmm, mm

Megs:

So it's like, it's this catch 22 and it's, it's almost cyclical. when it comes to the clutter. But it's learning these different questions and rules you can start to ask yourself and set for yourself. And one of the questions I love, I got it from the book Decluttering at the Speed of Life. Great book, but if you don't want to read it, just watch, you know, Instagram for, additional content. But this question is, instead of putting this item away and hiding it, because sometimes we just try to put things where they fit instead of where we think they might go, we ask ourselves, Where would I go to look for this if I were trying to find it? And it's a completely different process. Our brain goes to a different space. And so, We're holding it. I even make my clients close their eyes sometimes and really think like if you were going to look for this item, it's something you want to keep, where would you go to look for it first? And then that's where we go and put it. And so it's not as easy as to say like this is exactly what you need to do, but it is at the same time exactly what you said is building these small habits. And establishing these small rules for yourself so that you can understand how to manage your household without it overwhelming you.

Serena:

Oh yeah.

Megs:

Like, find a way to get in control. And like, something I realized earlier this year is how, Gosh, have you ever heard the term rage cleaning or angry

Serena:

Yeah. I invented that, just kidding.

Megs:

Yeah, okay, so it's like we find this like overwhelming feeling that we have to clean because in that moment something has triggered us. It could be that like the counter has finally gotten to the point where we're

Serena:

You snap.

Megs:

I can't handle it anymore. You snap, right? But the real reason you're snapping is because there's no system For anything in your home. Like there's no system for things getting cleared off the counter or for where those papers go or for where, you know, it's just so interesting that we feel like we have no control over it because we have an established control over it. So we snap to gain or regain that control again. And it's like, again, the cyclical thing where we're like, okay, I know I can clean,

Serena:

Yeah, yeah,

Megs:

but I, you know. We don't want it to come from that overwhelming emotional state of being dysregulated. We want it to come from a place where we feel like we're in control on a regular basis versus So I've, I deep dove into how can we really understand this so that, well, so that I can teach other people, but so that we know that having less and having systems and making our life easier to manage will make our ADHD easier to manage too. There's no cure, but having less, like, just like having less on our brain makes it easier too. You know, when we let something go, it's, it's freeing.

Serena:

when you were talking about the whole Rage cleaning and then being like, well, I know I can clean, so I'll just do that again. I feel like that's a very similar thing that happens with like procrastination. Like it could be a combination of things like you're like, oh, I know, like, cause I do, this is where like, I do have certain systems to like put things away and stuff, but I still procrastinate. And then I end up in that same cycle of like, well, I'll just do it all at once.

Megs:

And, and part of that too, I've noticed, cause I have two girls, five and seven, and they make a mess, like our house at, look, just because I'm organized does not mean I'm clean. Like those are two different things. My house still gets clean, but now when I look at the mess, I feel like I can look at it and make peace with it because I know that each of those items that is out of place. So, I get to look at it in a way that says Okay, if I were to set a timer for 15 minutes, I know I could make a dent in this to where I feel comfortable. Whereas a lot of the clients I work with, a 15 minute timer isn't going to make a huge dent right away. And it's certainly not going to be enough to, you know, hold them over for the next week. And that's really, we want to be able to have homes that we manage, but just like, I mean, just like with money too, when you're trying to tackle debt, if you make Extra payment, that's not going to make all the difference in the world. But when you start to snowball and take a look at what that can really do to your debt and how you can build your financial future, it's, yeah, it's training your brain to get into those habits of small changes instead of those big ones. Instead of expecting immediate gratification from everything that we

Serena:

Yeah. one of the biggest hurdles that I have is all the papers that come home from school with my kids. I'm like currently thinking about something that is existing over there in my dining room. I have like this hutch before school started during the summer, I went and decluttered all of the, Like the art cabinet and all the things and got rid of I went through the stacks of paperwork from school and just chose a few things to keep. And then threw the rest of the, of them away. And I was like, when school starts again, I'm going to stay on top of this. But now I have two piles that are quickly growing and they've only been in school for a month. And I'm like, okay, it's time for me to like sit down one evening and go through those piles and put them in the folders. And. Get all these papers off of my hutch, or whatever it's called. but yeah.

Megs:

It's funny because I'm in the middle of making a TikTok video right now on how I'm organizing my own kids schoolwork and stuff. And I'm just, I'm talking through the process with my knowledge, but it's also, it's funny because I'm a coach and I can talk about it all day long and ask the questions. But when I am doing it myself, I'm my own damn worst enemy because my brain takes over. I'm trying to do that right now and I think, I'll let you know, because I don't know that I have like the best method for it for myself yet, but I'm getting closer to it just based on the experience I have with having a system, but part of it is having a rule that you can go to. For example, if, if my daughter brings home a piece of paper that she's colored in the lines, then I'm like, that does not stay in our house. And so that gets recycled almost immediately. Sometimes she likes to keep things for a week, so I have a special drawer that that goes into, and then I allow her to be a part of the process with me so that I can teach her how to get things out. But my rule is, if it's a colored piece of paper, We have coloring. We have pieces of paper you can color again. Whereas if it's a book that they've written and now there's colored drawings in there and it's this illustrated version of their childhood, okay, that is something I'm gonna put in a memory box and I have this memory box and I just shove things in there because that makes sense for me and then I go through it once a year to see what I still want to keep and what I want to let go. So, yeah, Those are some of the rules I've established for myself, but I think everyone's different. Like I know some people have an artwork book that they send away to get created into little books for their kids. And that's a beautiful thing. I think one thing too, I was working with another client. She was taking artwork off the wall from 2020. It's been years, but she's like, Oh, this feels so yucky. And it's like, just because you take artwork down or throw it away does not mean you're a bad mom or dad. It just means that you're making room for more and it's okay to let go. You're not letting go of their childhood. You're not, right? It's, I think that's part of it too. We get emotional about these

Serena:

Yeah.

Megs:

Also math, tests, right in the garbage. No, thank you. Like good job. Well done. Maybe we'll put on the, the fridge for a second, but then

Serena:

Yeah, that's a good point. I keep a sample of like some work that they've done from the beginning of the year. And then at the end, so there's like a comparison, but then like everything in between is pretty much like you said, like real artwork or like a project that they worked really hard on or something that is like really creative.

Megs:

such a cool idea. Yeah.

Serena:

but yeah, and then I do, I have folders where Like hanging folders for them for each year, which that way it's like, if it doesn't fit in the hanging folder, then it's a piece of artwork. And that's a whole different thing. I have an 18 year old that, so I've already been through a bunch of this with her. I wasn't the best at it, but one thing that I did do is I had for a long time, I kept all of her like, artwork from preschool to, you know, elementary, like in a big box. And so one of the moves that I made, I sat down, I went through the box, I took pictures of everything, and then I put it in like a Shutterfly photo album that got printed, and I threw away the actual art, because it starts to get fragile too. And so it's hard to preserve it., so now she has like a little, little booklet of pictures of her art.

Megs:

Yeah. Okay, that's such a cool idea. That's awesome.

Serena:

yeah. Anyway, so let's switch gears and talk about how to like stay organized and manage a business with ADHD and some of the things that you've seen work for yourself. And then you said you have a bookkeeper. so let's walk through all of that.

Megs:

Hmm. Yeah, totally. I think when you first go into owning a business, I know for me, at least, when I first went into it, I was like, this could be easy. Like, whatever. I could do anything, right? And then I realized how much I didn't know. And there was, you know, managing the financial aspects of things and then managing marketing and social media and understanding that while I have these incredible ideas, if everything is important, then nothing is important. And that was a huge thing. I repeat that to myself every single day because my brain can take me on this train ride down this incredible journey of all of these places I want to go. But really I'm only one person right now. And in the beginning I thought that I could be just a one woman show for a very long time. I didn't think that I would ever really need to hire someone or be at the point where I would need to hire someone. One thing I do to manage my own business and stay organized is I created, I love spreadsheets. I just really do. I've worked with them a ton when I was in the corporate world. I love data. I love all that stuff. And I think there's some really cool equations that you can put in there to like make everything like really mesh together. So I have that. I have all of my different categories of my business. And all of the to do lists kind of managed in categories, like here's my financial to do list, my marketing to do list, so on and so forth. Podcast, right? Having a podcast plan. And then daily I have a to do list planner that I work in. I have a template on my website. that you can download and even podcast episodes to go along with how to plan out your day in a way that actually makes sense. And part of it is because we're time blind, we often think that we can do so much in a day. And then when we only get one thing done, we're like, wow, we are failures, right? Because we're so good at talking down to ourselves. But the truth is, is when we plan out our day and actually time box it and say like, oh, I'm going to get some admin stuff done. I'm going to do that for an hour. Here's the list of things I'm going to get done. You start to understand what you can compartmentalize and do during that timeframe. And then, you know, your next block of time is social media. And I'm going to do that for an hour because I've got to plan my content. I've got to do that. So I try to do that as much as possible. I try to plan meetings on a different day than I'm doing admin work because transitions are very hard for me. so like today I had clients. And I, I had a half an hour between meeting with you and leaving my last client and I was like, could I do something in between this time? And I'm like, no, Megan, you know who you are. And so it's okay if you just like, play with your kitten. It's totally cool, right? So it's these little things I've learned about myself and with ADHD that have helped me come to terms with it. But hiring a bookkeeper was one of the best things I could have ever done for myself, and the reason is I am an all or nothing kind of lady, and I like to become an expert at something when I start to dive headfirst into it, and so I could organize a budget all day long, but bookkeeping is a whole nother animal for me. And so when I sat down to do my taxes earlier this year, I had this thought in my head, I was like, this will be easy. It'll take me a couple hours and I'll just get it done. There's the time blindness. And then I sat down, And I was so overwhelmed at the amount that I had not tracked very effectively in the beginning of my business. And then I started getting overwhelmed with balancing the whole idea of bookkeeping and then I didn't know what software to purchase and then I decided that I needed to go down YouTube rabbit hole and become an accountant that day. and then I was in tears because I realized how much I couldn't become an accountant that

Serena:

Mm hmm.

Megs:

And then I decided that I was going to ignore it and pretend like I didn't need to get my taxes done. And so this is kind of the process I went through. I decided to file an extension on my taxes and it just so happened that I was on TikTok one day and I saw a video from my bookkeeper now, his name is Nathaniel. he has autism and ADHD and he's a bookkeeper for neurodivergent people. business owners. And I was like, this sounds interesting. And I met with him and almost immediately felt comfortable with him, but also had to explain to him how my brain worked. And I was like, this is what I'm concerned with. This is what I need help with. And this is what I'm going to continuously have questions about because I want to know. I want to really understand How I might be able to do this myself when you're not around or if I were to have to hire you more full time, what does that look like for me too? it was one of the best things I've ever done and he has taught me so much in our sessions together and then the behind the scenes work that he's done, I Now understand how much time I would have had to invest in learning about that, that it made all the sense in the world to spend the money on it. Like it, it's now a no brainer, which helps me understand that there's so many other aspects of my business that I cannot handle on my own because I will burn out way too quickly, especially not know, like I want to let the experts do it because they know what they're freaking doing. It makes sense.

Serena:

Yeah. So, did you end up doing, like, a package where he set things up and helps and teaches you and you're doing it yourself still, or is, are you handing things off to him now? Okay.

Megs:

And so for us, it made sense. I, you know, I told him that I wanted to understand just in case I got to the point where I couldn't afford to keep him on board anymore. I just want to know how to do it myself. So he made me a Canva, flow chart. And so like, If it's money coming in, this is what it looks like. If it's money going out, this is what it looks like. And then I can follow along. And so initially, he would show me how to do it. he was doing it because I gave him a bunch of stuff to do. I still have other things that I'm working on that I'll give him and he'll input for me, but he initially showed me how and then like a month down the line he made me do it for him and I was showing him how I was doing it and then he would create some additional steps so that I could know what to do next time. It was like he, he was allowing me to learn but holding my

Serena:

That is

Megs:

in the process. It was, it's so cool. I'm so thrilled with this partnership because it just makes me feel so supported in what I'm doing and also empowering because he's allowing me to make some mistakes and correcting me along the way too, which is beautiful,

Serena:

that's awesome. I'm always curious to see, like, especially being able to, like, interview a business owner on the podcast because we, like, as bookkeepers get so close to the process that we're like, well, I don't know why they're struggling with that. Like, it's so easy. But it's really nice to hear, like, from your perspective and then for anyone listening, like, if you've been thinking about doing an offer for a DIYer, now you have some ideas, probably. but yeah, some things to take into consideration, for sure., and it's so valuable to be able to, like, hear from someone outside of the bookkeeping world, like, what's actually effective, for different brains and things like that. Like, I never would have Thought to do a flowchart for someone to like show them the steps.

Megs:

Brilliant. Yeah, we're very visual people. And so like, and we also want to know everything. So this is just a really great way to not just hear it, but to see it and see an emotion and be able to reference something and come back to it on a regular basis. It was also really helpful to start to understand the difference between a bookkeeper and accountant, because I think sometimes people think that those are synonymous words and they're not. And That is something that's, yeah, there's so many different aspects of the financial upkeep of your business. And I'm not saying that to overwhelm, but I'm saying that to say, it's okay to ask questions. It's okay to take a step back and say, wow, there's so much that I don't know. And it's okay to say, maybe you need to spend a little extra money to hire someone, you know, because they're going to be able to get you in a position where you feel like that is a solid foundation to build off of. Because I think part of organizing a business and having it run effectively is that I know with my ADHD, I know my brain can take me on this journey of the next step and the next things that I want to do without building that solid foundation first. And that's why And it's because that's, that's the gross stuff that doesn't make my brain

Serena:

Yeah.

Megs:

But I also want to be a really strong business owner. And so, yeah, hiring someone to do the things that will allow you to let your brain go in the direction you want it to go in, I feel like that, it's so powerful. It's good to talk about it too, because sometimes I forget and I still think I can do it all. So it's very good to remind myself of

Serena:

Yeah. It's a good,, I always, anytime I have a conversation with like a business owner, whether it's in like a consult call or like a podcast interview like this, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, there's so much marketing material in this.

Megs:

Oh my gosh, totally. Yes.

Serena:

much messaging. so if you're aware and you're listening, that's part of, I mean, yeah, that's where I'm like, Oh, I could create this whole training.

Megs:

Oh my gosh. And like one thing I would say, if you're listening and you're trying to market your business, one thing that I need from people who are reaching out to me is say, Hey, I know you're spending a lot of time on this. Would you like to have more time to spend on what you actually do and what you love? Because I could help you do this. And this is how we can grow your company together. Like that is what I want to hear from people because there's so many partnerships to be had and. It's, I know, I know with me, it's hard for me to do the research to find

Serena:

Yeah.

Megs:

sometimes, so having someone come to me is helpful. Although I did reach out to Nathaniel first. I was like, what does your calendar look like? Because you seem like exactly who I need to be talking

Serena:

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. we talked about decluttering your home and operating your business. Are there any other things that you want Do you have any tips that you have for, working if there's a bookkeeper that either has ADHD or is neurodivergent in some way, or is trying to support that market of people? Do you have some top tips for those? Like how, how best to approach things?

Megs:

I think some people are afraid to say ADHD or autism out loud and say that that is exactly who I'm looking to work with. But when I heard that TikTok video that said, hey, I work with neurodivergent business owners. Would you like help with bookkeeping? That was exactly what I needed to hear. So being very straightforward about who you serve, I think is incredible. And understanding what we're looking for, too. Understanding that a lot of what we're doing comes with a lot of overwhelm. And knowing that you have a system or a way to take that overwhelm away, at least in the financial side of things is so helpful. And we don't know what we don't know. And, uh, and yeah, it was like, like I said, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made because I feel so confident now that that is handled, even though there's still work to be done. And there's still stuff I have on my to do list to do to get my taxes because I filed an extension. I feel so confident that I could pick it up and it feels easy to me now versus it feeling like I needed to become an expert. We can't be an expert at everything. So hire the expert.

Serena:

yeah, for sure. That's really helpful. Was there anything like soft skills wise that you found really crucial when you were talking with Nathaniel or even other people when they help in your business? What's like a major turn off versus like something that you find really helpful? In their communication.

Megs:

was, what was really incredible for me Oh, when he had questions, he bullet pointed everything when asking the questions. So it was very easy for me to follow when people send long emails. I'm like, who reads this? This is awful.

Serena:

That's something I'm constantly telling my community. Like please bullet point everything for your CEOs, even if they are not neurodivergent, like your CEOs, your clients don't have time to be reading a paragraph of email. Give them straight to the point.

Megs:

totally. And then I think another thing is, is really knowing who your clients are. So for me, something that was really important was knowing how to do it. And so, Nathaniel gave me the opportunity to do it in front of him so that I could make mistakes and ask questions. Because as, as he was doing it, I didn't necessarily have as many questions because he was doing it, and why would I have additional questions? And then he would show me some tips and tricks on how to use the accounting software that I have, and from there, then he was like, now you do it. And I was like, how dare you? But I did and I, and I would make mistakes, but it was in those moments, then I would learn. And now I understand how to use the software that I'm paying for, because he allowed me to make mistakes in front of him so that he could teach me the right way to do it. And so that was incredible. yeah, the flow chart was really helpful. I would say, I think the balance is still messing up like the debits and credits. Oh my God. Like I remember taking, I, yeah, when I was taking accounting in college, I was like, this is stupid and I love math. I, I was such a good math student, but counting, no, thank you. So I think just understanding how things have to balance and what the purpose behind it is. Like, I think we like to know the why behind the why, even if we're not going to be the expert, we need to understand why we're doing something. Because that, yeah, that, like, it makes what we're doing more purposeful and we can understand it beyond the extent that, like, it doesn't make our brain very excited to

Serena:

Yeah. Like for me, it's a matter of like, if I understand why I'm doing something, I'm going to be more apt to, you know, follow through on it because I see the importance. But if I don't, like, for me, I was not a math person in, in school. Like that was, I was not, I'm like a creative English and art over here.

Megs:

Yeah,

Serena:

like, for me, when I got to like algebra, I was like, I don't understand the point of this. I'm never going to use this. So it was really hard for me to buy into like enjoying it. I saw no purpose because I didn't have a career path where I was going to be using it. And even accounting is not a complicated math.

Megs:

yeah,

Serena:

so yeah, that whole thing, if I know why I'm doing something and I know the purpose of it, even if I don't like doing it, I can get myself to do it, but if I don't see a purpose in it, to me it's a time waster and I have so many other things I would rather be doing and could be doing, you know,

Megs:

uh

Serena:

so.

Megs:

It's so funny. I loved algebra. Also, I think, I think I loved it because I loved making the equations match up. So for me, it was like a game, I think, you

Serena:

that's how I view accounting. It's kind of like a puzzle if you look at it that way, like the pieces fit together if everything balances. It's correct. And that was the other thing. That was my struggle with math is I would skip steps inadvertently because I would get ahead of myself or try to do something in my head, which I can't do. I have to write out the entire problem. But anytime I would try to be like, I'm going to try to be like the person next to me doing everything in their head, I would skip a step and then I would end up with the wrong answer. But with accounting, it, if it balances, like everything is correct, like essentially. And so you're like checking your work as you go. So that's why I like it.

Megs:

Yeah, that's good stuff. I, it just reminded me too, because I think something that was so overwhelming to me was I didn't have all of my business and my personal account separate. And so that is what I'm working on catch up right now, but I was able to break it up into small small steps for me to get to the point where I had all of that in one place. So that feels really good now, but it's interesting that you say that. I was like, ooh, balancing, because I'm like, oh, I've got like five different accounts personally that I use to buy business stuff or to use. And I'm like, so that is part of getting organized now is like getting everything on just the business account so that I can manage that so much

Serena:

yeah. It is so much easier. That's a big game changer for sure. Well, thank you so much for willing, being willing to come on here and share your perspective as a business owner and give our listeners some tips on working with neurodivergent clients. Or if you are a neurodivergent bookkeeper, stay tuned. There will be more episodes with all of this. Thank you again so much. I really appreciate your time. This was a blast.

Megs:

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Serena:

Alright, talk to you soon!

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