The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

08 ⎸ Become a Bookkeeper with Katie Ferro

August 04, 2021 Katie Ferro Episode 8
The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast
08 ⎸ Become a Bookkeeper with Katie Ferro
Show Notes Transcript

This episode is an interview I had with Katie Ferro of Orderly Accounting By Katie - a fellow course creator and mentor in the bookkeeping space. We chat about motherhood and growing our bookkeeping businesses (of course!). This episode is definitely for you if you have no experience in bookkeeping OR if you have tons of accounting experience and you're ready to leave your 9-5.

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instagram.com/orderlyaccountingbykatie

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Sign up for The Bookkeeping Biz Workshops August 22-26

Thanks for listening. For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:

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08-Become a Bookkeeper with Katie Ferro

Serena Shoup: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Welcome back to the ambitious bookkeeper podcast. Okay. Today is a really special interview that I actually did with Katie Farrow,  inside the last round of the bookkeeping biz workshops, which by the way, are coming up again at the end of. August. So stay tuned, make sure you sign up for the waitlist if you want to join those.

But without further ado, let's jump into what Katie and I talked about. So this episode,  like I said, I brought her in to interview her in the bookkeeping business. Because  pretty much every round of the workshops, I usually get a few people in that don't actually have any bookkeeping background or accounting background.

And my programs are definitely geared toward those with accounting foundations. So. Always like to direct people to resources to get that education and, [00:01:00] um, experience. So I brought Katie in because she recently created a program called become a bookkeeper and it is very zero focused. Whereas bookkeeper launch is, um, QuickBooks online focused.

So between the two programs, you have resources for gaining that knowledge and experience. In this episode, we talked about. All sorts of things. Besides that program, we started off talking about both of us being moms of three corporate to start a bookkeeping business. Um, hers, she started it a little bit differently than I did.

 And, um, we also talked about the most. The decision was made to start a business. We talked about hiring in our bookkeeping businesses and at home and how we grew our bookkeeping teams to create passive income.  We also chatted about how we've handled, transitioning work over to our team of bookkeepers.

And of course, like I said, we chat about Katie's [00:02:00] become a bookkeeper program. So if you're interested. After you listened to this episode, check out the show notes. I'm going to link to her program, become a bookkeeper, and I will also be linking to the workshops so you can sign up for the wait list and make sure you're the first alerted to join.

So let's dive in.

  I have Katie Ferro here, and if you don't know who she is, um, I'm going to let her introduce you. She's also a CPA turned bookkeeping business owner, I guess.

Take it away, Katie. I'll let you introduce yourself. Yeah, we actually have lots of similarity. So I'm Katie 

Katie Ferro: [00:02:39] Ferroa mama of three kids. Mine are five and under, um, and my youngest might as well be 16 kids. So I have like 18, I think, loosely, uh, I am a CPA, worked in corporate for I think seven, eight years before I started my family.

And my condensed version of the [00:03:00] story is had a strange twist of fate where I was actually paid to quit my job, um, as they were gearing up for a sale. So I knew that I needed to take that, um, because of other circumstances and the timing being that my first son was on the way and I just trusted that sign and that, I mean, it doesn't happen very often, you know, so I trusted that sign and that timing, and I didn't know what was going to happen next, but I just allowed it to take place and.

I think that the words that I usually use to describe the growth of my bookkeeping businesses, that it happened haphazardly underneath me and my focus has always been on being with the kids. I knew that that was finite and a gift that I had and, um, was fortunate enough not to need the income when I was getting started with the bookkeeping.

Um, it's grown like surpassed my wildest expectations. And the biggest growth that I had was in the summer of [00:04:00] 2019, which was when I was pregnant with my third child. And I knew that things needed to change in the business in order for me to keep going and then allow this. I started to really see the value in bookkeeping.

And I think Serena probably talks a lot to that, but I could see that I wanted to grow it so that I had a really solid base of clients, but wasn't doing all of the work and that's where I saw a lot of growth. And then, um, That December started, um, teaching other bookkeepers the same. So, so that's my story.

Mostly. And I, um, the bookkeeping business has continued to grow throughout that time. I still get leads and I still take them. Um, but I say it's like a 50, 50 split, probably I'm like, I was going to say my biggest passion is in the bookkeepers, but I am really passionate about my clients too. So I'm a mom bookkeeping business owner and coach to bookkeepers.

Serena Shoup: [00:04:54] Yeah. So yeah, that's a very similar story to mine. I don't, I [00:05:00] don't know if I really delved into my story, um, in this group either like very detailed, but, uh, kind of, not really the same story. I didn't get paid to quit. I just didn't ever go back after I had my second child. Um, but yeah, I was in corporate for about 10 years, 12, 12 years, actually, I guess.

Um, and. And it was kind of the same thing. I just wanted to have more time with my kids. I, I did have my first, while I was getting my, I w during college, I had her when I was 19. So I experienced what it was like to be away from my child for 12 hours a day, basically. Um, while I was getting my education and then while I was working and getting my CPA license, and I just did not want to do that again.

Katie Ferro: [00:05:50] Yeah. It actually gives me chills just to think about it because I knew I never took for granted how fortunate I was with that set of circumstances. Like, because [00:06:00] even I hadn't experienced it. And I think that's the thing that makes it something that gives me the goosebumps. Now. I didn't know. I knew that it would be hard, but I didn't know how hard and I have never done both.

I have not had one day where I got dressed and went to corporate and left a baby at daycare. I haven't had that happen. Um, but I knew in those moments, especially because it was so fresh, like with, and, you know, at least for me, my first baby was the most jolting for me. So everything was harder than people will say.

I think we've talked about this. People will say like, how do you do all of that and have three kids? And I'm like, in my experience, and, and this is just me because everyone's different. But in my experience, having the third, even with life being so much crazier was easier and I could do more than having the first I was in shell shock, you know, survival mode with my first, everything was new.

And I think looking back that I had like some postpartum anxiety that I just didn't even, I just thought it was motherhood and maybe it is, um, [00:07:00] maybe it is maybe we all experienced that, but like I had a different level of, um, overthinking motherhood and overstressing everything. And so. I left that the timing was a month before my son was born, that I had my last day, which was, they gave me that timing, but it was exactly a month.

I left on December 23rd and he was born on January 23rd. And every day after that, I thought I'm so grateful that I don't have to think about going back to work. And I remember him being six weeks old and thinking, if you were telling me, like, I was halfway through maternity leave, I I'd be panicking and I was already panicking.

So I was just thinking like, thank God. I, I think it might've been the thing that kind of got me through some of those harder moments in his infancy was like, if I had anything else on my plate, I don't know what I would have done. And so, and at that point, bookkeeping was nowhere on the radar. Like I w I was not thinking anything about how I was going to make [00:08:00] money.

I was just surviving the moment thinking, thank God. I didn't have to make the decision to leave because I don't know that I would have. In fact, I know I wouldn't have, I know that I would have saw how it would have worked because I was watching other people do it. And I knew that it could be done, but the fact that it can be done doesn't mean that it's really even doable.

So I don't even know that I think it's doable. I think it's just something that people do. And because you have to, and because you don't have other choices, you, because you don't know the other options. So for me, it was like experiencing being able to have the cord cut for me and then be grateful for the time to have with him.

But then to also allow things to just happen and start building and be being available for those opportunities. And then also being able to call the shots. I knew what I wasn't willing to give up very clearly because I had experienced the freedom that I was now not [00:09:00] willing to give away, you know? And, and so I, I don't know how my journey would have unfolded if they hadn't done that, but I don't think that I would've lasted.

I just don't know what would have happened next. So I probably would've toughed it out for one like you, and then probably been like, I just can't do this again. Um, and I think I would have had all of this pressure were so off topic, but we're not really off topic, but I think if I had it, it might've been even affected when I had my second, because I, mine are so close they're 19 months apart.

And I think I would have been like, they're going to judge me if I have another baby and go on maternity leave again. Like it's selfish. 

Serena Shoup: [00:09:40] Yeah, my, my sec, my, my second and third aren't 20 months. And it's funny what you said about your first being like jolting. For me, it was my third being jolting because I had never experienced two children at such a close age together because my first one was 10 by the [00:10:00] time my second one was born.

So it was like starting all over again. And I could not imagine having to go to work with two babies like that, that, that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back. For sure. So, um, 

Katie Ferro: [00:10:16] yeah, like I experienced some of it, even though I didn't, because in my head I was planning it. So it was like, I was, it was almost like the alternate ending, you know?

So like when I was very, very, very, um, clear on what it would have been like if I hadn't quit, I think probably also it was a coping mechanism for getting through, but also because it might've been, um, me reaffirming my decision because leaving, even though I was paid was still very hard making that decision was still very hard, which was interesting.

You know, it's an interesting perspective for me to appreciate that. I want people to quit their corporate jobs, but it was still hard for me to do when I was given a generous [00:11:00] package with all the right timing. It was still hard. So I don't downplay how hard it is to leave. I just know what's on the other side.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Serena Shoup: [00:11:10] So, so yeah. So will you talk about when that moment that you did decide to start a bookkeeping business? Started for anyone. I don't know 

Katie Ferro: [00:11:24] that it, yeah. I don't know that it happened in one day day, to be honest. Um, it, it happened slowly. So I, I forget sometimes that I had, I had three CrossFit gyms that I was doing the books for when I quit, when I had my son, but it was owned by one person.

Um, it was very clean. Uh, he owned all three and I went into them quarterly. So I would pop in once a quarter and knock it out in a few hours. Um, it was like more of a quick and dirty bookkeeping than I do now. [00:12:00] Um, and I would honestly forget that I am had it. And then from there, my second client came, so it was somebody who went.

I used to go to that CrossFit gym. And so it was somebody who went to the CrossFit gym who knew I did the books for the CrossFit gym who, um, started a business and then was like, can you help me with this? And I was like, this is a fun story too. These are stories that I don't tell them. Because she came and sat at my dining room table with me when I had my son.

And I was like, I can probably do this when he's sleeping. You know, I probably have the bandwidth for this. And this is interesting. And I was more curious about what she was doing and I was thinking. Oh, no, she was doing a stationary business, custom stationary for weddings. I just, it's so interesting.

What's possible with business because she wasn't making money yet. She was just spending it and I'm like, oh, I feel bad. I don't want to charge her too much. And I quoted her for a cleanup, um, at $30 an hour. And then I went in and it was way faster to do the cleanup than I thought. So, um, I was like, I know that like in the future I can build higher and make this, um, more [00:13:00] than $30.

This could be 150 an hour. They just don't need to know that. And then I quoted her, I think it was like something really cheap, like 1 75 a month to do the books. But what happened is her business blew up. And by the end of that year, she was making six figures. Um, she had a little shop in downtown. I can't wait.

I got to bring her on the podcast. Um, she has an amazing story, but she had a little shop in downtown Hollywood or business has only grown since then. And she added on more, you know, PayPal and Stripe and she was selling on Etsy and she was doing stuff here. And so her account grew. And I doubled her fee come the next year.

And I think that that was one of those stories of like, there was no hesitation on her end, so I knew I could have done it sooner. And it was a delay on my end, you know, so lessons learned on the small scale slowly over time. And then I got two more clients. Um, I think around the same time it was a husband and wife with two different businesses.

They came referred through the CPA firm and then a bigger account, right. At that same time, I think I got [00:14:00] four clients around the same time doing anything. They just knew that I was home, you know, and the CPA firm knew that I was there available for it because of one referral. So yeah, I took them and then I felt like I had my plate there at about five clients, especially cause one was a big, um, account.

And I think we've talked about this with this account recently, let them go. But I gave them a hefty, hefty dollar amount per hour and I billed per hour for awhile because I do that. I was selling sleep. And I was a tired mom. So I was like, if they don't want to pay me this, then I don't want to work on it.

Cause I don't have time to take from anywhere else. I it's gonna come from my son or it's going to come from my sleep. And so in those days it was only coming from sleep. Um, that was a great account and, but I felt capped. So here's the twist I felt kept. I saw no value in growing my bookkeeping business because I thought that the more clients I got, I would either never sleep [00:15:00] or I would, um, have to start putting him in daycare or getting somebody to watch him so that I could work.

And that was not the goal. So I wasn't looking to grow that. And I started trying to, um, I started trying to do like courses for entrepreneurs and that lasted for probably a year before I became a bookkeeper of my own stuff. Cause I was compiling them and I went and split it out to see I was five figures in the red, on the online course stuff.

But how was I paying for that? And I was like, how did I do this? And, you know, I skimmed that year, year and a half to say that in that time I was still unwavering on the amount of time that I would spend with my kid. So I hired a bookkeeper, somebody that I used to work with at corporate, and I have to take those tasks off my plate.

And once I saw what that was like, I just kept giving her more and more. So eventually I was doing no bookkeeping except for the one big client. And I was even getting help on that. Um, as doing very little bookkeeping, spending time with my son and the [00:16:00] bookkeeping business was supporting this thing that at the time, um, had only taken money.

And that's when I saw the value in bookkeeping. And that's when everything changed. That's when I said like, this is actually my bookkeeping business is not only like monthly recurring, solid, stable, but it's also passive because I have a team. So that became the goal and it was, let me get, you know, let me quadruple those clients and triple the team.

And that's what I did. 

Serena Shoup: [00:16:30] That's that's awesome. I hope that anyone listening is really inspired by that and realizes that, um, you don't have to trade all of your time for, with your clients basically. Um, I've pretty much done the same thing. Um, I think I only had five clients before I hired somebody because I was in the same position.

It was either hire a babysitter for more time, which I had already had a babysitter for a couple of days a week, but I really actually had her for me [00:17:00] time. Right. Because I wanted to have time to go to appointments and go get a pedicure or whatever. Cause I had been, you know, staying home for two years without like being in corporate anymore, not having like my own social life.

So that's mainly why I had the babysitter. And then my client work started trickling into that time that I had the babysitter. And I was like, I don't want to add more babysitters. It's actually probably easier for me to just hire a bookkeeper to take off the easier bookkeeping tasks. And so I only had five clients when I, and like three of them were quarterly, so wasn't much being done.

I just start small. I started just handing her one client at a time doing bank reconciliations and coding, and then just went from there. Yes. 

Katie Ferro: [00:17:51] So yes, it's the same exact thought process. And also the same point. It was five clients, but I could see how five clients could take a [00:18:00] week, you know, like just a little here and there.

And, but I only had a little here and there and I think the F the first hire that I ever had in life was my cleaning lady. And it's the same one. She's fantastic. And she comes twice a month and I think I'm going to bump her up to weekly because it's just so different when she comes. Um, and that was because I took the big client.

And so her, her room. So she would clean while I worked and I was getting paid close to 10 times more per hour than that. That's the way that I started thinking. And I'm like, if I'm not cleaning my house for two hours, then I'm profiting, you know, this excess. Because that's a task I can get off. So, and then absolutely works that way, you know?

So she, she allowed me to, to have the time back so that didn't come from sleep. And so that my house was still clean. Cause I'm sure that other people, especially when you're trying to work from [00:19:00] home in those days, I was working from the couch, looking at the dishes that were calling my name while my son was napping and saying, I have a choice right now for this hour I work or I do the dishes and I'd be looking at them and it was hard.

Now I don't look at them because I'll want to do the dishes first. Um, but yeah, she was the first and then the babysitter came next just so that I could focus and get a lot more done. So, you know, the productivity that you can have three hours with a babysitter versus three hours from eight to 11:00 PM is very, very different.

You'll get like three times more done. You'll feel good. And in those days for me, I was home listening to, or seeing them out of the window. Playing with the babysitter, knowing that they were really getting like the best of the best, because I'm able to get my stuff done. I'm able to get sleep so I can be a good mom and they're not missing anything.

It doesn't always have to be me if they're well taken care of. So that's when I started releasing some of the rains over them and it was really freeing. And so for me, it started with three hour days, it would be a [00:20:00] babysitter. I think she was twice a week for three hours. It's crept up to five. Um, but I still do that two days a week, five hours.

And it's really so that I can have a little bit of a cushion so that it's not just abrupt. Um, but my actual focus time is probably still that three hours that you could get so much done in those three hours. Yeah. 

Serena Shoup: [00:20:18] That's about where I'm at too. We've talked about this before, but I'm, I'm in my new office, right?

And it's glorious. It's nice, but yeah, 

Katie Ferro: [00:20:30] right. Yeah, because it's like phase one is a work from your bed. Work from the couch. Phase two is get yourself a nice desk and a real place to work and preferably somewhere where you can shut the door. If you're a mom and that's life-changing in itself. And then you feel like for me, so accomplished, even just putting that place there, like I did this, you know, office expense, the business paid for this.

And then the next level is like, I would be even more productive if I were out of the house. If you want to, again, you can do it anyway. [00:21:00] We seem to make a lot of the same decisions. 

Serena Shoup: [00:21:02] Yeah. Well, I think you really inspired me when you got your office space. I was like, I need that. And that was mostly because I would probably be still fine working from home, even with a babysitter.

Um, but the problem that I have is that I share, I literally share a physical office with my partner because he now works from home, which he didn't use to. So that was never an issue before. Um, but now, like we just have too many conflicting phone calls and meetings and stuff, and it was, it, it became just way too stressful for me to try to, um, oh crap.

He has a phone call, so I have to move my stuff out of the office to like the bedroom or whatever. And it was just like, this is too much. 

Katie Ferro: [00:21:44] And, um, for me it was a moment of like, you know, I, I, I guess I didn't mention no, I did my daughter, my, my poor baby. I gave her such a bad rep. She is really, really hard right now.

She's 19 months old and will not let me put her down. It's no exaggeration. Like if I [00:22:00] could show what that looks like, it's really intense. And, um, it wasn't even her though. My kids are all just needy like that. I'm sure it's normal. So if I would go in the room and close my door, they would soon forget about me.

But if I had to pee, I used to text the babysitter to get them in the other room so that I could run pee and come back and I'd be like, can you leave me a peanut butter and jelly by the door? Like, I couldn't leave the office because we would lose a half hour. I would my, my office and my house. I lose a half hour of them.

Mommy, are you done working? Mommy, can you do this? And then you get this. That otherwise doesn't need to be there because when, when I was there and the door was closed, they were fine. Happy everything's moving. You know, the presence of me became the distraction and the day that, that, that was always how I worked.

But there was a day where my son is, must've been like six months ago. My son was, um, knocking on the door and I just had 30 minute that's left and I really needed it. Like, I really needed those 30 minutes. I had something in my head writing an email to a client. It, you know, with the kind of Headspace where you've got a focus and he's [00:23:00] knocking on the door and asking me for a hug and I was frustrated, you know, but I was frustrated.

And then I was going, like, I can't be frustrated that my son wants to give me a hug. I do need this 30 minutes though, so that I can be a present parent to him in the other, you know, hours that I would never have if I was working corporate. But like, this is no longer working. And so, um, I looked and found this space that I now share with somebody.

So it's like so reasonable. And I always think, I love that I'm talking to bookkeepers right now because I always think in terms of. Right. So what she pays, um, I mean, basically the cost of this office is the cost of one monthly client, but what does it allow me to then do? And it's exponential. And then like, and then I hire somebody to take over the books and like, this is where you start thinking in those terms.

And we already think in numbers. So just start making business, like decisions and the rest falls into place. 

Serena Shoup: [00:23:55] Yeah, I am. Um, I am huge at calculating, like the [00:24:00] opportunity costs of things. For me, it was the driving time that not S I mean, the same thing would happen at home. Like if I was working, the kids would literally be sitting outside the door, waiting for me to say goodbye on a phone call.

And then they bust in and be like, are you done? And I'm like, I still have to like wrap up what I just met about can get it out of my head into like a sauna or whatever. And, um, but really for me, it was the driving time because we live 30 minutes from town and both of my girls. Even during hybrid school, we're both going to school on the same two days a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

So those two days I was in the car for at least two hours a day. No. Yeah. At least two hours usually longer. Cause I had to like get there and wait and you know, so I really, it was really like a three hour thing every day. And I was like, what could I actually accomplish in an extra hour a day? This office space gets paid for by two [00:25:00] hours of my time, right.

With a client. You know what I mean? Like, um, it's not even, it's not, it's, it's half of, one of my, my client fees. Like my minimum client fee it's super cheap. So it was like, I can't, I can't lose that way. And I already had most of the furniture, so it's like. And just pull the trigger. I went a little bit, I went a 

Katie Ferro: [00:25:22] little bit crazy in here, but I do like, I think that it's worth it.

Like I'm like, yeah, it's nice. But I, it also feels like worth it, you know? And because energetically, that's another thing too. It's like just the quiet is so nice, but like energetically look sitting here. I, um, it, it it's worth it because then like, yes, it's inspiring. And then that creates, right. So, um, it's all, it's all worth it.

Um, and it's always just a little, you know, one step I look, I'm looking at it and I'm thinking like this wasn't even part of the plan. You know, this was nowhere near a part of the plan. So it's really cool because it evolves and it evolves pretty [00:26:00] quickly and it evolves and you, and I didn't even have like a support or strategy.

We just were doing it and, and making the twists and turns. You know, we talk about, well, I do, and I'm shifting the way that I talk about it because I say it can happen fast. It can happen fast, of course, but it doesn't need to, nothing needs to happen in any certain set of timeframes, so it can happen nice and slow and it can happen fast.

And yeah. And 

Serena Shoup: [00:26:28] what, what people think is fast versus. Yeah. On the other side of it, I look back and I'm like, that did happen fast, but while you're in it, it feels like it's happening really slow. Like it took me a full year to get to 10 clients, but actually that's pretty fast. That's basically a client a month.

Katie Ferro: [00:26:44] Yeah, it is. Yeah. And, and I think, like you mentioned, bringing on the team, it started slow and steady one person to hire one client to train. Like, let's be honest to that. Like I'm sure. I'm sure we're [00:27:00] just going to get super honest here. Like when we go into clients, I'm just talking for us. I'm just going to talk about me now.

You can just echo me if it's true. When I am doing a client and it's my client and I have to do something like link payroll. Right. So that it automatically feeds. And I know that it's right. And I go in, and there's a hiccup with that. I'm not going to spend two hours linking payroll because I could get the whole account done in two hours.

So it's like, I'm just going to get this one done really fast. So when you're hiring a team, you've got probably some inefficiencies in place and you then want to correct that. So it takes time to get the efficiencies done and know that your system is really right. So like you're eating time in the front again, though, knowing you're going to be reaping those benefits forever.

So it's way easier to get stuck in, in working inefficiently when you're working just by yourself, when you're, when you're having another set of eyes, even if it's just your own staff in there, you don't want to explain all of the weird nuances you want to assist in [00:28:00] the ties and clean them up. Not to say they don't happen, but it takes a little bit of time and moving one client what you're going to learn.

And then, um, but then also dividends on, on just training that one team member, your team member, when you slowly train them. So that they're very good at one client. Then they're going to get very good at three and potentially very good at, I have one that, uh, Which is, I think a lot of clients for one person to manage, especially because she's also a stay at home mom with other things going on, but she does a great job managing that, but she knows she's at her limit there.

So it's like, we're moving on to the next bookkeeper now. Yeah. 

Serena Shoup: [00:28:37] Yeah. I agree. It is a lot of time investment upfront, like up in the front front, but it does pay off because then like, if you just dedicate the time to getting your system set up and your process and coaching your bookkeepers the way you want them to do things, then you rarely have to [00:29:00] revisit that after right.

Katie Ferro: [00:29:02] Right. And I do this thing where like, I, I pop in, you know, every so often I don't necessarily, I always say I'm going to put a schedule on that. And I don't, it's like if something happens or if I feel like I'm losing a little bit of a familiarity with the client, then I'll pop back in and look, but you're really just adjusting at that point.

And it doesn't take much time and it's just so nice. It's so necessary to, to really, I think, live the life that you want it's with what we're really trying to do here. I think it's necessary to hire a team. 

Serena Shoup: [00:29:32] Absolutely. Yeah. And the other side of that too, is being able to, um, not be the only one that your clients talk to and if something ever happened and you needed to step away, there's continuity because they're already used to working with another bookkeeper and, and all that kind of stuff.

I still talk to all my clients. Um, I don't meet with all of them every month anymore. I have my client manager doing [00:30:00] some of them. Yeah. Um, but eventually it'll get to the point where I'm only meeting with them maybe quarterly or annually, so, 

Katie Ferro: [00:30:06] right, right. Just even as needed, like I'm here or like, you know, you can then engage instead.

Cause a lot of mine, um, I'm there and they know it. And so they might just pop out with a question or they'll email back with a question on their report and then they're copying both of us and I usually want to respond to those. But again, I think I'm grooming, um, like my head bookkeeper up to, I always loop her in so that she can see what those responses look like.

I always then hop off on boxer and explain to her why I answered that way so that eventually she'll be able to make those decisions and understand things too. Yeah. Yeah. 

Serena Shoup: [00:30:45] We do the same thing. So, um, what I did, what I actually brought you on to talk about, and there were some people so, sorry, everyone, you got our life stories and how similar they are.

But, um, what I wanted to bring you, [00:31:00] I don't feel like 

Katie Ferro: [00:31:00] it was needed. I have a feeling it was needed. So I just was going with it. I'm like this isn't unique way of looking at it. I think it's good and honest. Yeah. 

Serena Shoup: [00:31:08] So number one is that, like now you guys, a lot of you probably already follow both of us, but like we technically could be considered competition, but I don't really view things that way.

And um, I always like to give people other options in case they, for some weird reason, don't like my style. They have another option. That's pretty much the same, but whatever. To to learn from. And also Katie just came out with another program that is for people who don't yet have an accounting education or a background, but want to do bookkeeping.

And so I wanted to bring her in to talk about that in case any of you are interested in that, because I do know there were some people that were in these workshops that, um, reached out and had, had expressed a little concern [00:32:00] that like, they felt really behind because they didn't have the corporate experience.

Um, and so I think I've already shared the link, but I'll share it again after this is over, but Katie, can you talk about your become a bookkeeper program? 

Katie Ferro: [00:32:13] Yeah, this is just about as bad as asking me who I am. Yes. 

Serena Shoup: [00:32:18] So first I'm going to, there we go. 

Katie Ferro: [00:32:20] That might be a harder question first. Explain what it is.

And then, and then I'm going to get into how it came to be and then like who it's for. So, uh, it is, it's a course, you go in and you do it yourself. So it's, self-paced however long that takes you and people will often ask, like, how long is it going to take? I think it could take anywhere from two weeks to six months, depending on you.

Some people go in and they binge and they get right through it. And other people are slower. I recommend for anyone going through it that you go through it in full, because it's really a peek inside the [00:33:00] 15 years that it took me to get good at what I do. Because while like my other program is for people who basically rate themselves like a nine out of time on the bookkeeping.

And if I handed them a book, bookkeeping clients a day, they would know exactly what to do. Right. You may be competent in being able to learn, but inside become a bookkeeper. You're going to be able to condense the amount of time exponentially, because I compounded what you need to know about accounting, the tax questions that you're going to have to learn how to navigate.

Even if you don't do taxes, like I don't, you're going to talk about tax and you want to be able to have a competent conversation about it. And I think that I, I constantly was hearing that people would be nervous about what if my client asks me this. So in there I talk about the things that your clients will ask you and how to respond to them competently, without needing to know all of the [00:34:00] answers, but also being educated.

So it's three phases. It's learn shadow and apply and in learn, you'll get a refresher of basically accounting 1 0 1. I actually took a textbook because I was thinking, how do I teach accounting better than accounting? And then I'm like, I don't. So I picked a textbook for service-based businesses because I think beyond that, it's too deep for me to feel like I can teach it to you and really stand behind sending somebody who doesn't have an accounting degree in to do an accounting job.

I think you should probably steer clear of complex entities. The good news is there's plenty of demand in simple ones. So what I show you is simple business. I walk you through a textbook and I recently was relistening to some of that stuff. It took me about three months to create this program. So I was relistening to the beginning and going.

This is really good because you get to go through the textbook, but then [00:35:00] you have somebody like, it'd be like us sitting down at a picnic table, reviewing a textbook and me going, like, highlight that, skip that altogether, and then saying like this part right here, you want to know, but this isn't exactly how you're going to see it.

So from the lens of somebody who has the business that you want simplistically, while knowing the depth that exists, you're going to get so much value out of that. It's also really well-designed program. So I know that there's people that probably everybody that's going to kind of want to just pay for the course and have it implanted in their brain.

Nothing works that way. So I locked that course down so that you really have to go through each section. So I'm going to make you go through, and there's going to be assessments after the sections to make sure that you understand. And I'm basically highlighting the very important. And when you pass, you can move on to the next section.

So you go through accounting, you go through tax and you go through [00:36:00] bookkeeping basics, that's in learn. Then when you have the foundation, you watch me do a full client setup. That's the shadow section, which is probably going to require a couple of cups of coffee. And it's not perfect, which is really nice because your clients are never going to be perfect.

So I could have done you the disservice of finding a really easy client and walking you through it. But instead I did you, the service of watching one of the weirder ones that I've had, she had strange things pop up and I had to ask her questions, which you get to watch on a zoom call. So like a lot of people get nervous about what it's going to be like to talk to the client and like have that discovery.

You get to watch us. She allowed me to put that in there. So it's a zoom call with me and the client. While I clarify things about her business, ask her relevant questions, um, dig deeper. Some of them, I answer, I think it's going to go this way and then you'll watch later. I changed my mind. So [00:37:00] I think for you, it'll be good to, to hear me walk through why I asked those questions.

And then also that I even changed my mind. I didn't have to have the right answer up front. And even when I made my decision, I still backed it with run this by your tax preparer and make sure they agree. Um, and so you watch me hop on and connect her in zero link. All of her banks, we had some trouble with that.

You always want. So making peace with that is good. You're always going to have a little bit of trouble. And then once she had the off, I broke it out in sections and I went through each part in order to get checklists and guides. But you also get to watch me do this setup, every single transaction for all of 2020.

So January to December, I went through every one of her transactions in order. Um, you watch me reconcile it, the flow of how to tie it out, tax return, tie out everything. And even when that's complete, then I do her first month [00:38:00] of January, 2021, because it's different to do the setup than it is to do a month of books.

So you watch me do maybe seven hours of setup and I should go back and quantify. It might be 10, but it's not, it's not 30. You know, it's somewhere, it's something manageable. And then you watch me do the first month of books, which is a different process, but should also go like, okay, It gets easier, you know?

Cause the setups are usually where you have to take your time and um, again, checklists and guides and resources and in the learn stage, I, I pointed back to the authorities too. So I'll have some conversations where you say like, here's the general information on this. Here's where it can get complicated.

You can either avoid this altogether by taking only service-based solopreneurs. Like I'm showing you, or you can dig deep into the authoritative way to learn this properly. Um, because I can't teach you everything about accounting in, in an online course, but I can teach you how to [00:39:00] be. Right. I can teach you how to be a competent bookkeeper for an in demand, easy industry.

And that's what Babs is. Let's become a bookkeeper. And then in the third stage, because this is really like what I thought the program would be. And then when I finished, I said that wasn't there. I was a little bit. It was a little bit crazy than I expected, but accurate. And so again, I could go back and try to find an easier client to deliver the promise, or I could really deliver the goal, which is make sure that you can drive that home.

So I had a lot of fun creating a very well-designed practicum, where I took real data, but stripped and edited it so that it's nobody. Real bank information, but you can play with it. Like I made mock statements, you'll be shocked. I did it in Google sheets. They look like real bank of America statements.

So you've got Stripe and PayPal data, credit cards and, um, payroll and, uh, whatever else. I'm missing checking accounts with statements with transactions in C CSV [00:40:00] files so that you can take that data and import it into zero and test your knowledge. So you get source documents and transactions. You open up a trial account of zero.

And I do that intentionally because I want you to finish that in 30 days. Cause it shouldn't take anywhere near 30 days to do maybe two in-depth days, but so you should be able to do free trial, get it done. And then you get to test your knowledge by pulling reports and entering the information you got off the reports to compare it to my reports, because if we have differences something's different.

And um, then after. You get my answers and then you get to, um, unlock an answer key where you watch me again, go through the practicum. So you can compare what you did to what I did, but I forced you to struggle before I give you the answer so that you don't peak because you won't learn by Peking. Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's a really well-designed course that I consider the prequel to my other program.

But when I'm in it now, [00:41:00] I'm like, I designed this for people without an accounting background, but this is well beyond that. I think it's actually even the test. If you question your ability at all, it's the test to go in and say, okay, I did know it. You know, you can go through accounting and say, if she's telling me that this is what I need to know.

And I already knew that I already knew that I already knew that. And then you go through the practicum and it's easy. Um, you'd be the first one to get it all right. Which not a ton of people have completed it yet, but, um, I'm looking forward to that. And then you will get the confirmation that you're ready, which will give you the confidence to go and grow your business.

Sky's the limit. There's no way that you're going to get in there and not learn something new too. And, um, you get to basically come in and watch me work in my business that you're looking to replicate. So it's really invaluable. And I, I have a couple of people in there who are CPAs again, [00:42:00] but they have different experience.

So like nonprofit experience boldly, or they've been in just this one area, or they've only worked on that. And they want to see more of the businesses that they're hoping to work with instead. So, so 

Serena Shoup: [00:42:13] like someone who only has a tax background that has never done, like they might, you might have your accounting degree, but you never actually practiced accounting.

You just attacks, it would be a good option. If you're wanting to add bookkeeping to your expense. 

Katie Ferro: [00:42:30] Yeah. I think that if, if you're looking to grow a business, looking for like these industries and the reason I'm sharing this industry too, it's not only just because it's narrowed down to deliver, but it's who I serve and it's who I serve because they're easy to target and easy to deliver, which makes it by simple and scalable.

And that's the whole point. Yeah. Yeah. They're generally 

Serena Shoup: [00:42:55] really fun and um, amazing business [00:43:00] owners. They raise a lot of them, the ones that I work with, respect boundaries, we don't ever have to have like come to Jesus about boundaries, which is a big deal when you're a mom. Yeah. So you totally get it. 

Katie Ferro: [00:43:14] And you're like, there, there saver and so many areas.

Um, and I think that you're really able to even see that with this one client, like she was on the call, like already, just so relieved to have looking at it. And she wasn't a client then, but she is now. And, uh, it was, it was just a really, really, really good experience. So when I, when I, I can tell you how it came now, you know, to answer that question, it was that I'm always working on what I can create that I see the demand or need for, but without also, like, how do I do that?

You know, how can I do that? And then also do it well. And, um, at the time that I launched Bob, I had, Zoe was two months old and, um, my other ones were, what was CJ? [00:44:00] Was he four? I don't think he was four yet. He was under four. And so I had my hands full at home. They weren't even in school, you know, and I was like, what I can do.

And so I was very clear on who was for people who were already very good at accounting. And I got a lot of questions, like to two questions, one, how do I learn bookkeeping? And I would always refer to QuickBooks pro advisor and the zero certification program of which I had gone through neither, no online.

I was a QuickBooks pro advisor at the firm, but it was really weird. Like when I took it keeping that's the thing. Yeah, I, I didn't learn much in that. I didn't maintain it cause I didn't think my clients cared at all zero. I hadn't gone through, I now have, and I wish I had gone through it sooner, but again, it's not going to do this.

It does not do this. Now I can say with certainty, it does not do this great addition to, so I recommend that people go and do Babs and then [00:45:00] get the zero certification so that they have the understanding of the goal. And you're probably going to pull out even more from zero and you'll always learn how to do things even better than I do, but this is an excellent starting point.

Excellent. And, um, so I would say that, and then they're like, I'm still stuck. I'm still stuck. And then they would say, um, can I come work for you? And I'm like, no, like, no. And, um, for a lot of reasons, I don't have the time to train somebody else. I don't want to invest in somebody who then wants to grow their own necessarily not directly, not as the immediate goal, but also sometimes.

Sometimes it's just like, well, where, what are you experiencing? And I don't think that this, like working with me or for me is the thing that's going to get you what you want, but like this would be, and you can do it. So it's the solution. And I just knew it. And, um, when I quit my biggest client, I had the time then to create it.

And then I was getting a lot of questions and demand for it. So I was like, [00:46:00] okay, I'll create this. And I spent three months of, um, lots of work involved in creating it. But while I was in it, I'm like, all right, this is way bigger and better than I expected. And it will only continue to get bigger and better.

I have. In the summer it's scheduled, I've already got a routine, um, to go through and be revamped by, uh, I don't know what she calls herself a course designer, but she's really like, she makes sure that it's really well done for all learning types. And there, we went through the framework of what she is going to change and it will further enhance it.

It's already a very good program. It will just get even better, but when it gets even better, the price is going to go up too. So it has extended payment plans and pay-in-full option. And I tried to make it as accessible as possible with this because it is something that's like, I don't then [00:47:00] have costs when you join and I don't have to deliver when you join, but it's a very well done experience for you to get that transformation that you're looking for.

So, um, yeah, three different payment options. But I think you can get in and get out as slow or fast as you need. Think it can be done manageably in a month. And I think if you have accounting background, it could be, you know, two, three weeks. 

Serena Shoup: [00:47:26] Awesome. Yeah. I remember when you messaged me around the same time you were letting that client go and you're like, I think I need to create this program now.

And I was like, all right, do it. Cause I'm not. Yeah. 

Katie Ferro: [00:47:39] It's been bubbling for a long time. And it is interesting because even before I grew my bookkeeping business, so when I had the five clients and I was looking to, to grow online, my coach then said, what if you teach bookkeepers? And I was like, I was like, where would I even begin?

It seemed like no freaking way. And then, [00:48:00] and then after I grew the business and cause I was like, I can't teach them how to grow it. I haven't grown it yet. It just happened. But then I did grow it. And then after that, um, I realized that like, I didn't have a niche, then I didn't have that focus. So it was interesting that she can kind of see it before I could, but it's probably been on my mind since then, which was January of 2019, you know, and, and that little seed has been there and I've been knowing that it would really help.

And it just, it, it had to be like when I had the time, when the clarity, which is now, so it's there and it's ready and it's ready whenever anyone is, and they can hop right in and get to work. 

Serena Shoup: [00:48:38] Awesome. Beautiful. Well, if anyone is watching that has questions about the program, please drop them in the comments.

Um, and then I'll probably like Katie go, I had only allocated like 30 minutes, but of course I should have allocated a whole hour. Um, that's okay. That's okay. Um, it's always really fun to catch up [00:49:00] with you and, and talk about things. There was one thing I was gonna bring up and now I totally spaced it out.

Um, oh yeah, I pretty much. I felt when I started my bookkeeping business, I knew I wanted to teach other bookkeepers too, but I knew there was already other programs out there that really supposedly go really in depth on the bookkeeping. Um, so I decided to just like focus on advance type stuff that way, just because like, I have so much knowledge from corporate that, um, if you decide to leave corporate, when you're a staff accountant and say, instead of leaving, when you're a controller, like I was, there's a huge gap of things that you're going to miss out learning.

So I'm filling that gap for my students basically. So, um, I do the business building stuff too, but also like financial statement analysis and other things like in budgeting and things that you won't necessarily learn. If you decide to leave corporate as a staff, Which is, I think [00:50:00] like I, sometimes I kick myself for not leaving way back then when I had that dream.

But also then I wouldn't have this knowledge to share with you guys. So yeah. 

Katie Ferro: [00:50:08] Yeah, there is that because, um, I'm just going to echo that too in different phases, which is like, I always, I always like to just trust in the process and the timing and the journey, you know, wherever it leads us. And while I might've been able to leave earlier, it was all in perfect time.

And without all of the experiences that I had, I wouldn't be here. So that's where I saw the need for this program too. It's like, I, I didn't mention that I worked at a CPA firm and, you know, had like two years of tax seasons with them, but I also, you know, Then went in and I can't even tell you how crazy it was when I got my first business coaching client.

It striped just didn't connect the way that it did then either. So really rolling up my sleeves and getting in and learning how each and every transaction works and making mistakes and changing platforms and stuff like that. It would have saved me so many hours, you know, to have [00:51:00] somebody to be able to say like, this is how this works and this is what you can do.

And it would've been really cool, but it didn't exist. So I rolled 

Serena Shoup: [00:51:06] my sleeves up. Yeah. That's not something that you're going to even learn when you go through college. Like I took a quick book, super quiet class in college, but, um, back then there was no bank feeds or anything like that. So you didn't have to struggle through that.

I, we didn't do bank feeds and corporate either. Like we literally entered each transaction by hand, like data entry. So things, the technology is so different now that like, I just had to figure it out when I started my business and, um, That's where I can help speed up the process, I guess. 

Katie Ferro: [00:51:39] Yeah. And I think a lot of, um, tax preparers too, they take the numbers to do tax returns.

And so they'll either take statements and kind of back into things or they'll expect the business over to do it, but like CPA firms don't, they don't do books like this. They definitely don't do books like this. 

Serena Shoup: [00:51:57] No. And I worked at the CPA firm. We [00:52:00] just took ending balances and like applied to a trial balance.

You get by that statement. 

Katie Ferro: [00:52:06] Yeah. Or like ask and then made it work. So it's just not the same. Um, I received a client in day or yesterday from somebody who said that that's their experience right now. And they're like, I get this stuff from last year. It doesn't tell me anything. I don't know what's going on ever.

And she makes a lot of money, but she has no real handle on it. So that's what we're able to fill and the way that we're able to fill it and, um, run our lives the way we want is to have effective. Processes a clear understanding of what we're working on and who we're available to work with on the client's side.

And then a process repeatable enough to train to a team so that we can lay the groundwork. But within a couple of years really reaping the rewards of the time. Freedom that we're looking for. 

Serena Shoup: [00:52:55] Yeah. It doesn't just appear automatically unless you do just [00:53:00] take it really slow. Like you don't overload yourself with claims from the beginning and just bring them on slowly as you're building your process, then you can mean, like, that has always been my goal.

Like, I think you posted something about this the other day where she reshared a post of, um, you don't have to quit your full-time job and work a full-time job or build your business full-time hours to. Make what you made full. I don't know. I'm totally botching it, but you know what I'm saying, right? 

Katie Ferro: [00:53:29] Yes.

Well, well, I had somebody now we're totally riffing, but it's okay. If you guys are bored of this, you can go. But otherwise we'll be out for a couple more minutes. Um, and just say that, like I had somebody in my program who said she was feeling discouraged and she's like, I'm working a lot. And you know, I, she already is a mom and she's like, I realized that in order to not like he's wearing her words, but not burn the candle at both ends.

I only have 10 hours to grow my business. And I was like, only like, you can totally grow your business in 10 [00:54:00] hours. And then what I said is not only can you grow your business in 10 hours, but when you grow it to the stage that you want and you quit your job, you can put a hard boundary in place to never let it exceed that you can make decisions to make it always work.

That way you might not have the income that you desire in that 10 hours today, but you can absolutely grow it in that time. And maintain that time. I think it's very easy for us. Uh, those of us who come from corporate or just a hustle background of any kind, this was ingrained in me from restaurants. Did you say that you did or didn't work in a restaurant like we've had this conversation?

Yes, of course you did. Why am I, but those, those environments are you just like, go, go, go hustle, hustle, hustle, work, work, work, you know, it's, it's almost like a muscle memory where it is hard and it actually requires an insane amount of work to not overwork I'm in that right now. [00:55:00] I had a rough week. I overdid it.

I am still constantly working myself through doing what I say and what I preach, and that takes the most effort. It takes a lot of effort for me to not work full-time. Um, but it absolutely can be done in it. It can be done the best when you're really clear on what you have to get. And that you're just consistently showing up and growing it too.

But that to say, you know, like you mentioned, having the understanding of what you're doing and on a deeper level is so important. And that's why I actually think that Babs it's more valuable than my other program in that, without it, you might really struggle to grow that business because if you don't have efficient processes or you're still unsure of if you know enough to get on calls, you know, and talk to clients or take a client of a certain caliber you're wavering and spending a lot of time, doubting yourself that could be [00:56:00] removed by just going in and exposing your weak spots and then working on them.

Because when you're good at what you do, everything else falls into place. 

Serena Shoup: [00:56:09] Yeah. Yup. So if any of you guys are in corporate right now, and you're wondering like, can you build a business on 10 hours a week? Absolutely. You can. It might not hit six figures within six months, but you can totally. And then you maintain that, like Katie was saying, and that's basically what I was trying to get at with my totally botched quote or whatever.

But, um, I listened to a podcast a while back that talked about this guy who had a side hustle and he only worked on it, um, 10 out, 10 or 20 hours a week or something like that. And, um, he grew it enough to replace his corporate salary, but he was like, I'm not going to now just replace the hours. I worked in corporate.

Like I'm going to keep it at 10, 20 hours a week and grow it more if I was able to do that, I can still, so basically, like when I heard that I was like, oh, [00:57:00] Because I always felt like, oh, once my kids are all in school, full-time, I'll just work the entire time. They're at school. No, I'm not going to do that.

I've made that decision now. Like I'm going to keep this 10 to 20 hours a week schedule and that's it. Um, if you're having a hard time figuring out if you have 10 or 20 hours a week to put into a business, that is also how I studied and passed my CPA exam. I found 20 hours a week. I got up an hour earlier.

I, I studied at my, at my lunch and I studied an hour in the evening. That's three hours a day. And then I did the rest on the weekend. So you can absolutely find 20 hours a week. And you will be a lot more efficient with your time when you do condense, like the time you've allowed yourself because of parking.

Yes. And when you, 

Katie Ferro: [00:57:47] yes. And, and I don't know that I kind of look into the term, but I just know that, like, I just know that truth, which is, if you say this is what I have, you make it work. And that's where you make the biggest, best decisions. [00:58:00] When you have a lot of time, you make very bad time decisions and it's just a truth.

And when you think of things in terms of how much of this money can I keep also, that will also keep you very small, like, cause that, that was the mentality that kept me from hiring a bookkeeper and hiring a cleaning lady. I said, well, I can just do that myself so I can save that money. You are not saving money.

If you could otherwise be making money and you're not like saving your energy, if you could otherwise be like living here. You know, so you have to think in terms of what expands versus what, like chords, you know, so it's with time and with money and, um, things that I do to keep myself mindful of not working too much as like this week, I'm tired, I've got to fulfill my commitments, but I looked at my schedule of what I already have booked for next week.

And I have like one thing on Thursday, but outside of that, um, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday are empty. So I blocked them on my calendar and now no one can book me on [00:59:00] Calendly and I can still say yes to the things I want to say yes to, but they just won't be available to book me those days. And it's also going to show up on my reminders that I'm off.

And I am going to force myself to be off. It's going to be probably pretty hard, but other things that you can do too, is like scheduling the things that you want to do. So whether it's a massage or a walk or whatever, like schedule those and, and fit everything else in. And then in the meantime, but it can still all be.

Serena Shoup: [00:59:27] Yeah, I agree. I think moms are really, really good at this, by the way. Um, but the, the key is planning, honestly, because you don't want to then have that moment of freedom from your children or whatever it is, and have like an hour to do something and then spend 50 minutes of that hour, figuring out what you're going to do, because then you'll just feel really discouraged.

So the key is really to plan for when I do have this moment, what am I going to use it for? 

Katie Ferro: [00:59:59] Right. So 

[01:00:00] Serena Shoup: [01:00:01] anyway, thank you so much for coming on here. I hope you guys enjoyed this. I see a few eyeballs that still hung around, so yes, Tanya, I was kind of talking about you about the tax stuff, but I also, I think you're, you're probably skilled in bookkeeping too, but if you want to chat about, um, about her program with me or with Katie, just let one of us know, um, Efficiency is your downfall.

I'm the same way. It's hard to not work full time or more. Yeah. Especially if you aren't working a corporate job anymore, which I think that you're not Tonya, so yeah. Try not to get stuck back into that corporate lifestyle. Yeah. 

Katie Ferro: [01:00:40] And I just want to say one more thing on that, because I've seen, you know, through, through my program, a lot of people have quit and then they end up like working a lot.

And I'm like, I honestly think that it's, it's a bit of a proving to yourself thing it's like, cause you know that, you know, your old boss is not going to call you and ask for your P and L. [01:01:00] So your old boss is not going to know when you reach that milestone or maybe it's a spouse. Either somebody who really wants you to succeed.

So there's pressure or somebody that you think doesn't, or might be afraid that you're going to fail and you want to prove this to them, or maybe it's just you, but it's, it's very much proving energy. And so you're like you're rushing for the dollar threshold while sacrificing the life goal, but the business exists to live the life.

So it's more of like challenging yourself to allow yourself to be and allow yourself to enjoy it. And, um, it it's shockingly harder than it seems, you know? And it requires that thought process of like, what am I doing this for? And making sure that you're living the right life and you can grow your business even on that right.

Feeling. So you just have to like follow each moment and say like, no, she ain't, I'm feeling burnt out. I'm going to pull myself back in and I'm going to schedule something for me. And I'm going to hold myself accountable to not becoming what I always say. Like not becoming my own worst. 

[01:02:00] Serena Shoup: [01:02:00] Yeah, the, what I ended up doing around this, because I was struggling, even though I still only worked.

Part-time like, I was still burning myself out and staying up really late and finding things to do that really didn't need to be done or things that I could have handed off to someone on my team. Um, what I did instead, because I am a very productive person and I like to be busy. That's just my personality.

I think, um, I just started scheduling myself hobbies. Yes, I do it too. But rollerblades like you did. And I bought a ukulele, even though I have tons of instruments I can play like, and I'm scheduling time to play my music. I bought a recording microphone. I'm going to learn a recording software and start recording with one of my friends from high school.

And like I'm committing to other things that are not my business, because I know this about myself. I need to be busy and I also need the accountability. So. Um, but there are things that I enjoy that aren't work. [01:03:00] Yes. I feel that very 

Katie Ferro: [01:03:01] much. And, um, it, it just becomes routine. So like, when you get into a routine of overworking, then you want to continue to overwork, or you're thinking about the, to do list and like, it does always get done though.

So I've been doing the same thing of like, uh, like last night I was just like, I'm scheduling the time off. And then when I can come up for air, I'm probably going to schedule a little like activity for me and my daughter every day. So that I'm, you know, today is the day that we go rollerblading. It gets really frustrating when then it rains and then I'm like, oh, so you got to have a backup plan if it's weather permitting.

But yeah, it's so funny. Like to even think that that is a challenge, but it is so, um, but it, it just takes mindfulness in reeling yourself back in and remembering what this is for and allowing yourself to enjoy it. It's, it's deconditioning that corporate mentality that it's just a state of being. Yeah.

Serena Shoup: [01:03:53] Yeah. You get used to, um, my therapist told me that like, when you are [01:04:00] used to living in that, like hustle, your cortisolis always up. So you actually get used to feeling stressed. And so when you're, when you have downtime and you're not feeling stressed, you don't know what to do because you're like, where's the cortisol.

So take it, leave it, whatever. But yeah. Yeah, 

Katie Ferro: [01:04:22] it makes sense. So we just have to work to recondition it. 

Serena Shoup: [01:04:27] Yeah. Oh, crystal says that's so important. I've been working between working in nine to five that has nothing to do with bookkeeping and getting this off the ground. I've been neglecting anything. I find fun and there might be seasons like that, honestly, um, to just recognize that it's a season and it's not gonna last forever.

Um, but if it helps to schedule in some fun things, go ahead and do that too, at least to recognizing it. 

Katie Ferro: [01:04:54] Yeah, like you said, um, with finding an hour, I believe that you can find an hour for yourself. [01:05:00] So I'm interested balance of that. And then I have seasons, like the three months where I was creating Babs.

It was a lot of late nights and a lot of, um, you know, stuff going on in my head. And then I had to fulfill that commitment. So it was like, I know that this is a season where on this day, then I will do this, but you have to also do that. So you have to put the deadline and then put the rest and then put the boundaries, um, and make sure that it happens.

But I believe that whether, whether it's the goal, um, activity that we're doing right now, like if you wanna take a trip to Spain, you might not be doing that right now, but you could like, you know, get yourself a bottle of wine and drink it outside by yourself for an hour, one night, you can do things like that to kind of like feel what you're looking for.

And, and, um, I think that it's important too, to not kill yourself throughout the process, even if it requires taking a little longer sometimes though. And I think that you could echo those, like. It's really in those [01:06:00] moments that you like schedule the activity that you get your best ideas that you problem solve, the biggest thing, like you really need to make space for that to be able to move forward.

You can't move forward by doing and pushing through everything. Yeah, 

Serena Shoup: [01:06:14] absolutely. The, um, I have an example of this from just the other night, uh, I'm onboarding a new client and I'm catching up three months of information. But as you know, when you set up a new client on Stripe and PayPal, if you have to go that far back, the feeds don't go that far back.

So I had to import PayPal and Stripe and PayPal was a beast because it always is cause there's ins and outs and all the things. And I was like, oh, I'm working on it late at night. And my brain just stopped working. And I was just like, this is going to be so hard, but I'm just going to walk away from it for a couple of days to figure out what mistake I made.

Um, and yesterday I jumped back in it. When my mind was fresh, I was in my office. I finished what I had been just like spinning my [01:07:00] wheels on for like an hour, one night, which is a long time when you don't have a lot of time. Right. I finished it in like 15 minutes. I just like had a fresh set of eyes and was like, oh, so easy to see.

Boom, it's done. So, um, that would not have been possible if I had just kept trying to push through it, it would have taken an extra six hours probably. 

Katie Ferro: [01:07:21] Yes. And, and then like maybe breaking something else in the process you ever like delete something that you actually like get worse and worse. Um, but like you mentioned, I'll just bring it back to that.

And again, that, that Stripe and PayPal stuff, because this was an old example, that's stuff that I show in Babs. So like how you get the old data in for Stripe and how you get the old data in for PayPal. And then what that looks like when it's working properly, all of this stuff, it's all in there. Um, she even had some working capital loans and some balance transfers and it was a very, uh, very robust example, but [01:08:00] also doable.

So 

Serena Shoup: [01:08:02] yeah, it is all doable. All right. Well, okay. We've gone way over. So I'm going to let everyone go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for watching. I will. Um, while you guys can watch the replay in the group. So if you're watching the replay, I should've said this at the beginning, but. Okay. Um, all right, Katie, thank you so much.

And if, um, I will also drop the link to her program in the group. If anyone is interested in checking it out. And do you do calls with people if they're interested or is it just, they just. 

Katie Ferro: [01:08:33] Yeah, no, you can actually automatically enroll. It's another, like well-designed thing in Kajabi where you'll have the page, that'll tell you everything about the program.

When you go through the enrollment application, it asks you questions makes you acknowledge certain things, and if all looks well, then you get on automatic acceptance and the links to purchase right there. And, um, if anything, you know, there's anything deeper, you have a question, you have an [01:09:00] ability to put that in there.

I'll respond through email and approve or tell you what I think, you know, might be the better solution for you. Probably if you've listened to this, you know, that it's the right fit, but yeah, you'll get more of a clear, um, flow on the sales page. And then the application or enrollment process will really help you see things.

I have people apply and then enroll right away. 

Serena Shoup: [01:09:22] Awesome. Thank you again for your time. Always a pleasure. 

Katie Ferro: [01:09:26] Thank you for having me. Bye bye. 

 

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