In this interview episode, I chat with David Richter - owner of Simple CFO, a fractional CFO firm, and author of Profit First for Real Estate Investing. We talk about profit-first, offering CFO services, and creating a business you love.
In this episode you’ll hear:
Resources mentioned in this episode:
About our guest:
David is the owner of Simple CFO, a fractional CFO firm, and the author of Profit First for Real Estate Investing. He's been a part of over 850 real estate deals, and through his company he has helped over 200 businesses gain financial peace and freedom.
Connect with David:
Join Simple CFO: simplecfo.com/join
Follow on FB: facebook.com/david.richter.395
Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @ambitiousbookkeeper
For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:
Visit our website: ambitiousbookkeeper.com
Follow the Blog: ambitiousbookkeeper.com/blog
Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/ambitiousbookkeeper
Connect on LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/SerenaShoup
Connect on Facebook: Facebook.com/serenashoupcpa
Thank you for your support of our show. If you haven’t left a review yet it’s super simple. Please go to: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/podcast and leave your review.
Podcast Publishing Tools we use:
Click here to get the free First 100 Leads Training with James Wedmore >>
Join the next free training at ambitiousbookkeeper.com/training
In this interview episode, I chat with David Richter - owner of Simple CFO, a fractional CFO firm, and author of Profit First for Real Estate Investing. We talk about profit-first, offering CFO services, and creating a business you love.
In this episode you’ll hear:
Resources mentioned in this episode:
About our guest:
David is the owner of Simple CFO, a fractional CFO firm, and the author of Profit First for Real Estate Investing. He's been a part of over 850 real estate deals, and through his company he has helped over 200 businesses gain financial peace and freedom.
Connect with David:
Join Simple CFO: simplecfo.com/join
Follow on FB: facebook.com/david.richter.395
Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @ambitiousbookkeeper
For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:
Visit our website: ambitiousbookkeeper.com
Follow the Blog: ambitiousbookkeeper.com/blog
Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/ambitiousbookkeeper
Connect on LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/SerenaShoup
Connect on Facebook: Facebook.com/serenashoupcpa
Thank you for your support of our show. If you haven’t left a review yet it’s super simple. Please go to: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/podcast and leave your review.
Podcast Publishing Tools we use:
Click here to get the free First 100 Leads Training with James Wedmore >>
Join the next free training at ambitiousbookkeeper.com/training
if you have a niche and you've defined a niche for yourself, then I would go after masterminds, masterminds, where it's a group of people that pay to be a part of. You know, a quarterly meeting or bi annual, however often they meet or weekly on Zoom or monthly on Zoom or whatever, where you can get a part of that group and be the accounting bookkeeping person, you know, the financial person for that group. That's where I first started and I still attend Masterminds today. They're a great place to find where your, the warmest leads are going to be, especially If you get into where you can get with the leader and say, how can I provide value to you? Is there anything I could do? I could talk about this and not make it boring and tell them how they can actually know where their money's going, like giving a good presentation. Those are some of the quickest ways to get warm leads and warm, you know, warm opportunities into your system where they actually need the help. Because a lot of people need it. You just need to know how to communicate it effectively and succinctly. Like as a business, as an accounting bookkeeping expert, you're going to speak "Accountanese" and a lot of the entrepreneurs are not. Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper podcast today. I have David Richter on today to talk about lots of things like profit first and offering CFO services and creating a business that you love. So welcome, David. How are you today? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Good. Awesome. So how about you introduce yourself to our listener and I will go from there with questions and we'll kind of just dive in today. Oh, sure. So I started my journey back in 2012 as a real estate investor. Cause I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, love that book. And it got me out of the mindset that I just need to go to school, get a job, you know, and then just live life like that. So that was a mind bending book and kind of put me on the entrepreneur journey without actually diving into entrepreneurship yet. Bought a house, did a bunch of stuff back then, got involved with a real estate investing company, worked in that. Well, while I was there and seeing us, we grew that company to when we were doing about, I don't know, if you saw an HGTV and the fix and flip shows, we were doing about 25 deals a month at our highest point. So, I mean, it wasn't a small company. We were doing about 300 of those deals a year, but we were spending about 26 worth of deals. Flow a month. So it's like you spend, you know, you make a million, but you spend 1. 1 to get there. It's like, what the heck is happening? So that's where in that company, I, even with my background, my background was, you know, I went to school for secondary education. It was not for accounting or finance or even business, but I got a crash course in small business. When I was in that business, because one of the seats I sat in was the finance seat near the end, just because I like numbers. And I mean, if you could see me, I'm not sure if this is, if you're watching a video, if you're watching or just listening to the podcast, but I look like the consummate numbers person for sure. Glasses, just give me braces, you know, slap that on me. But that's where I like that type of stuff and was learning every single day. And then I learned how to read the profit and loss, the balance sheet, you know, the typical statements. And that's when I saw we were hurting. And like the numbers were telling our story, it was not a very fun story. I also then, we're going to different mastermind events, which is just a group of people that are all like minded that like in the real estate world, there's real estate investing masterminds. So what other successful business owners making six, seven figures all gathered together. And I heard that we weren't the only ones making money, but feeling broke, you know, like a lot of other people, yeah, we're doing a lot of deals, but then at the end of the day, where's all that money going? So that's what I heard. And that just turned me on until like, there's this other world of like, there's a lot of business owners that are out there that make this money, but. They're not really getting the financial freedom that was promised to them. And that's how we felt too. That's what first even clued me into that. And through a series of events, I moved across the country. I had bought several rental properties and had a little portfolio. Like there was a lot of things that we were doing personally, and that afforded us to move across the country. And I started working with another investor. He was in the same boat, bad books, didn't know where his money was going. No profitability, bad cashflow. From there, it was literally like, what is going on? Where's all my money? And I was able to help them get to at least clarity. This is what's coming in. This is what's going out. This is what we're keeping. And that to me. Was one of the light bulb moments for me because it turned into a light bulb moment for him. He said, now that I just have clarity of where my money's going, that's going to help me. And it's going to help me know how to make more, where to spend it. How much can I really keep from my company? That's when I started Simple CFO. Was okay, I want to give other people this clarity. And then I got wrapped up in the profit first book. Cause a mentor told me you should read this book. I'm like, it's a great cashflow system. Cause it appealed to me as an entrepreneur. And it like made the cashflow management piece manageable, literally like as an entrepreneur, so that's what got me down that road. Then for the branding play, I went after profit first for real estate investing to write that book because I like profit first was seeing good success with it in our fractional CFO company, and then wanted to get. That message out to the specific niche I was serving. So that's where I went and wrote that book and now have a simple CFO, which is a fractional CFO company have about 40 fractional CFOs that are in our network and working with about 150 clients on a monthly basis where we just do fractional CFO services. So there you go. There's my intro along my journey from real estate investor to fractional CFO owner without. Much accounting finance background or any degrees in accounting or finance. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I definitely have some questions now. Yeah. Let's dig in. So one of the things that like, I think probably highlights why clients are drawn to you is that you're able to speak to them in their own language. Right. And that's something that I try to help other bookkeepers and accountants understand is cause we get like. Really, especially if we came from corporate, where you're used to using like the corporate jargon and all of that stuff and you're just surrounded by the rest of the people in the finance or accounting department, you don't have to worry about really communicating things in a way that others understand because everybody is on the same plane as you. But when it comes to working with small businesses, that was one of the big hurdles that I had was making that switch from corporate jargon to how now, how do I make this relatable to a small business owner and talk about the things they're actually going to care about? So are there a couple of pieces of advice or things that you typically cover? On a regular basis with clients that maybe it to an accountant seems super simple and ridiculous clients aren't going to care about it, but it actually ends up being one of the big things that helps them. Oh, I love this question. I want to preface this with you. If you're listening to this and your accountant bookkeeper, your financial knowledge is at the 10, nine, or 10. If you go into the small business space, the wild, wild west here, most of their financial knowledge is one to four. Maybe four or five, six, like depending on how savvy they are. But that's where most people you are light years ahead of where they are from their financial knowledge and knowing the jargon and knowing what a profit and loss of balance sheet. And I will say. Most of the people we work with, even into the seven figures, sometimes don't know how to read a profit and loss, don't know how to read a balance sheet. And even if, even if they have some of that knowledge, they, they might not know every single term that you use. You have to use really simple, think about it, like, how would you explain this? If you have a son or daughter, that's like five or six, You know, and then that sounds condescending, but it's not. It's how business owners want to be talked to. Like they want you to be able to explain it to them bottom shelf. So I use the words make, spend and keep how much did you make? How much did you spend? Where did you spend it? And did you get to keep any of the money? Like those are really the numbers they care about. So if you go in guns blazing and talking about all the financial jargon, that's out there and like all the different ratios and stuff, you're going to get the gloss over, you're going to be just that other financial person in their life that they don't understand. They don't like having meetings with you because they don't like what is coming out of your mouth. Cause they don't understand it. They don't want to feel talked down to or talked over, you know, the, you know, talking over their head or talking down to them. And that's where if you can just boil it down, it took me three years, even without the extensive financial background to boil it down to those three simple words, to be able to communicate with our owners, make, spend, and keep. And that's what we teach our CFOs, like. Even with who we have on our team, like we have financial leaders. That's what we provide is that financial leadership as CFO. I have to tell the CFO to talk like this, where a CFO you think is like talking way up here, like way up in the clouds, it's like, well, no, it's even more important as a leader. If you're going to lead and coach a client. So if you're a bookkeeper, but you're also giving them some advice and stuff like you've got to put it on the. Bottom shelf for them to understand. So I would break it down. Okay. This is the word I usually use in this situation. How do I make this assets, liabilities, what you own and what you owe? You know, it's like simple things. Can you translate that into from maybe a more complex idea to a simple one? And you say, this isn't complex. Everyone's heard of this. Check yourself, check yourself. I was at an event or I was talking to someone who runs a huge event around money. This, you know, in this space. And they had Marcus Limonis, the prophet, you know, like the guy from the TV show, the prophet, and he's like, you have all these people in here, successful business owners, but they don't know finance 1 0 1. And the moderator was like, yes, they do. They know what a profit and loss and a balance sheet. And Marcus did an actual session for like two hours and he said, let me do just basics of p and l and balance sheet. And he got up there and he said, how many know how to read a balance sheet and can tell me what goes on this side and what goes on this side of the balance sheet? And like. One or two people raise their hand out of a group of 500 and he's like, see, you know, like people don't know finance 101. So that's the first thing. If you want to deliver immediate value to your clients, you have to meet them where they are. And a lot of them are further back than you think, because you are so far advanced, even in their mind, you, and you, if you're listening to this, you probably have more of a financial background than me. That's running a bigger financial company. And like, I had to do this to myself and rein myself in once I learned all this stuff, you know, when I did it years ago. So it's like, now, where are you on that scale? And then meet the client where they are. Cause if they're at that one or two, you use fancy nine, 10 words, they're going to be glazed over and you're just, you're going to lose them. So that's the first things I would say. And then that makes spend keep is usually what we first focus on. Cause most people understand those words and what's coming in, what's going out. What are you keeping? Yeah. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. yEah, I usually, when I, when I get to the point of explaining the balance sheet to clients, it is a lot of them have a little bit of like personal finance background. So I, You know, let them know like your balance sheet is like your net worth of your business, basically. So and just simplifying it down to we want our assets to be higher than our liabilities, right? We want to be able to cover everything that we owe if we have to liquidate everything. So so yeah, thank you for that. So, so you, started in real estate. And you were, were you teaching at that point and just doing real estate on the side, or did you get your teaching degree and then decide you didn't want to do that? No, I'm using more of my teaching degree today. You know, like in what we're doing then. No, back then, I was working as a machinist at night, you know, just at a factory. Started reading these types of books and then got into real estate on nights and weekends, then transitioned full time into real estate. I've never held... A teacher position, like officially now I do, you know, like as the leader of this company and like trying to educate the market and all that and, you know, helping with that type of stuff. But that is where now I looking back, I got my degree in small business from that company. That's really where I got like, okay, how do you do things? How should you not do things? But no, I really didn't use my teacher degree a whole lot back then, or didn't have really a teaching position. Okay, interesting. Yeah, I started out as an elementary education major. And, uh, switched to accounting a couple years into college. But yeah, it's always interesting to see, like, how people end up. where they are. I don't know very many people that follow their entire career path that they set out on right when they started college or whatever the story may be. It's very interesting. And we put so much pressure on kids to like figure out what they want to do with their life. And I'm like, but by the time you're 30, you're probably going to be doing something completely different. So it doesn't matter, right? It's, you know, and as I've gotten older, seeing those Types of things, like don't ask a kid what they want to be when they grow up. Ask what they enjoy. What do they like? And like, is there something around that, that, you know, cause Xero likes and dislikes Wayne and Wax throughout the years too. And is it something that creates value or not? Would you rather work at a job or would you rather create something in the marketplace? It's like asking better questions, you know, now than what we were asked as kids. What do you want to be when you grow up? And it's like, well, I want to be, you know, if I would have. Been asked that back then, it's like firefighter, a doctor, you know, it's like never really think, and then even then wanting to be a teacher, it's like, well, I now get to teach, but it's in a different way in a different format. And I've found what I not only enjoy, but what is really valuable to the marketplace too. And if you're an accountant bookkeeper, like, you know, this is a vital function for businesses. Like they need that. They need it. Like they need air. They just don't understand because when a lot of them are sucking air at night and they can't go to sleep, they're usually thinking about how do I get more leads into my business, but they can't fall asleep because there's not enough cash in there. And it's like, that's where you can help them. You can point it out. This is what's going on. So that's why I'm excited about where we are now. It's like, that's where now I'm using some of the stuff that I did, but just in a completely different way than I thought I would be using it when I first started out on that journey. Yeah. So one of the things that side note for the listener, we had attempted to record this podcast a couple of times, but our first, our first recording was interrupted. So we decided to just start from scratch, but there was a couple of things that we talked about in that interview that I want to make sure that we touch on. And one of the things was you were talking about, Putting yourself in the room with the type of clients that you want to to work with. So do you have, cause this is one thing that always comes up from people that are listening to this podcast, my students and whatnot, is like of the biggest pain points, honestly, for any business, not just bookkeepers and accountants, just like you said, the business owner is thinking about how do they get more leads into their business? Well, how do bookkeepers get more leads into their business? Yeah, here we go. the quickest way is through a warm audience. So how do you insert yourself into a warm audience? First, the very first thing, whether you're a veteran or if you're new, who is in your immediate network that supports you? You can always ask them. You never ask, do you have a client for me? Do you know anyone? Or any group that needs an accountant bookkeeping expert in there. So I could help provide that value. You're not even asking for clients up front. You're asking more for the connections that gets you into some of those rooms. And if you have a niche and you've defined a niche for yourself, then I would go after masterminds, masterminds, where it's a group of people that pay to be a part of. You know, a quarterly meeting or bi annual, however often they meet or weekly on Zoom or monthly on Zoom or whatever, where you can get a part of that group and be the accounting bookkeeping person, you know, the financial person for that group. That's where I first started and I still attend Masterminds today. They're a great place to find where your, the warmest leads are going to be, especially If you get into where you can get with the leader and say, how can I provide value to you? Is there anything I could do? I could talk about this and not make it boring and tell them how they can actually know where their money's going, like giving a good presentation. Those are some of the quickest ways to get warm leads and warm, you know, warm opportunities into your system where they actually need the help. Because a lot of people need it. You just need to know how to communicate it effectively and succinctly. Like as a business, as an accounting bookkeeping expert, you're going to speak "Accountanese" and a lot of the entrepreneurs are not. They're going to speak entrepreneur. So it's like, that would be the other thing. In order to attract the right clients, learn to speak how they speak, which is also a lot easier if you start with a certain niche, because then you can use their terminology, just like you were saying at the beginning, you were saying sorry, that in the, in our world, there's certain words that we use. And like, if you were in the corporate world, then you could. You know, talk buddy, buddy with the other people. Well, it's the same thing in any of the niches I can real estate investing. Do you know what wholesaling is? Do you know what wholetailing is? Do you know, like days on market? Do you know, you know, conversion cycles in these types of things and like going from a lead to an appointment, to a contract, to, you know, like explain the steps that I could explain. And from the real estate investing perspective, but I know. My target market. That's the other thing. So those are some of the quickest ways. The quickest way is who do you know that can get you into those rooms? The second way is to just Google those like, okay, do you have a niche? Where's a mastermind? Where's someone that I could go to right away? The, you know, what hasn't worked for me that a lot of people go down is the content game on Facebook, social media, you know, unless you're driving them maybe to a, a lower tier type thing, like a webinar and the webinar gets them to like, just give them an hour, you know, of their time to you. And then you say, if you would like to, we could schedule a call after this, no obligation type of thing that might work better for you. But like, for me, it's always been. Mingling with the type of people that I want to get, and where are those people congregating? That will get your, your quickest, you know, speed to lead for the people that really need what you, what you do. And it's less selling because usually that group is selling you, just by saying you're the bookkeeping accounting expert. So, that's where I would start. Then you can add those other pieces on. I'm not saying you should just stop there, but it will grow. That type of thing will give you the marketing dollars to put towards. Other marketing channels and initiatives. If you can get revenue in the door, I will say, your website, you know, like all this other stuff that we focus on that we think is important is not revenue producing activities are important. Meaning who am I networking with? How many calls per day do I want? And it might not be to clients. It might be to those connections, but set yourself no matter what, by end of day, every single day, I'm going to reach out to three to five people on my list. Whether it's a client I'm following up with or a connection that could get me in a room. That's how I started at the beginning. It was slow and painful, but the work paid off. You know, now we've got a ton of clients where, you know, multi seven figure, you know, business. And it's because of that early work and planting those seeds, niching down, really knowing who my target audience was, who we serve and who we don't serve. Those types of things are the big things. So that, there you go. There's a couple of key pieces of trying to get just. The right clients in the door first. Yes. I wholeheartedly agree with that. One thing that also is a benefit of being in those masterminds is even if you're newer to that niche, you're going to start consuming all of that. information and learning a lot more about it too. So you'll have, you know, you'll be around the questions that people are asking and the struggles that they're having. And and you just need to really just pay attention, honestly. But yeah, having conversations is, I think people discount, the importance of even just having a conversation with someone that you know, isn't going to be a client. Right. Like. Exactly. that's still a valuable time to spend on those efforts. And sometimes we get caught up in this like, well, I know that person doesn't need a bookkeeper. Maybe I'm wasting my time even talking to them, but you don't know who they know. Exactly. They might have a huge. range of connections of other people who need bookkeepers. So not just thinking with the end goal in mind, but like, like you said, who's going to have that warm audience. Um, even if it's like another agency owner that serves the type of clients that you want to work with in a different capacity, like HR or insurance or whatever, you've, those are valid. That's very valuable to be spending your time talking with those people as well. So. I agree a hundred percent. it's like raising private money in the real estate world. It's never about, do you have private money? It's more like, I've got an opportunity. Do you know anyone who's interested? If they're not, do they have anyone? Cause then that gives you a connection. And if they're interested, great. Then you have that conversation because now they're telling you they're raising their hand. So same thing here. It's, do you know anyone who needs bookkeeping or would need a bookkeeping expert either in their group or that needs them right now? And if they don't need them, then. It gets their wheels turning for that, especially if they're a good friend or you've built good rapport with this person already, they're wanting to help you and point you in the right direction. Yeah. so I know you attend masterminds and events. do you currently put on workshops or get on stage and talk in front of those groups? Do you do podcasting? What's your current strategy? Speaking is the best. If you can get in front of a group of people, that will convert. to calls the best. So I do a lot of speaking. I like that. I do a lot of virtual speaking now. I have two appointments tomorrow to speak to two different groups. I like doing that at least once a week where I'm going to someone else's group and I'm just trying to deliver that value. And then if they want what we have, great. Here, book a call. No obligation. We're going to see if we're a good fit. If we're not, then we've got great connections for you, no matter what. So it's very non pressure at the end, but there is always a call to action. Always, a hundred percent of the time, there's a call to action. Usually it's something for like, Hey, I'm going to give you this cheat sheet for profit first, like for mine, you know, because of what we're doing. Or it's something like. An expense analyzer, something that can help that business and give them real value. Then from there, it's, you know, you book the call if you want to. So speaking, yes. I would also say in these masterminds, it's when you first go to these, just attend and contribute. If there's someone in the room having a financial issue, speak up and tell them, like, here's some of the things they're just here that you are a financial expert and like, Hey, this is someone I should go to and talk to afterwards because they might have the same question or different questions and other people start coming up to you. So that's another big one. Podcasts is another great way. It's like, it's, a double edged sword there. You also not only get to spread your message and have a call to action on every podcast you do, but also you get to practice your message. Because if you do enough podcasts, you're just getting better at when you speak in front of a group of people. The podcast just helps, you know, okay, these are the things that are either landing or the things that I think that, you know, it connected with the host and the host is great and they gave me great feedback. You know, that type of thing. And you latch on and then you build those into your presentations as you go and speak. But yes, the number one thing you could do is speak. Whether it's just on podcasts, you're always thinking one to many. You're always thinking sustainability. We do workshops as well. So we, just started that more recently and doing online workshops. We had like our second one you know, like a month ago or a few weeks ago, you know, and had 40 people show up. I'm like, this is great. You know, like this is great just because it was kind of a last minute thing too. But then there, there's another opportunity to be able to pour into people. And if they want to take a call and book that next step, great. If not, you're giving them a ton of value and they're giving you their time to be there. So I, yes, at this point we do workshops. I would say your quickest path to wealth in a certain niche is getting around those. Industry leaders that are in that niche and saying, can I speak? Do I have a great presentation or topic? Do I also have some, clients that I've worked with in this already? And that would also back me up. Is there anyone in that group I've already worked with? Like if you can stack on some of that stuff, that's going to help you with an end, but if not, then you're just going to have to go in with a, this is what I can provide. This is how I can help. You might want to even offer your services to that, you know, leader of that group at a discount. And you say, I never want to, you know, like all those people out there that say, don't never discount your services. I would, if it can lead to a bigger connection, like if that will be like, Hey, I'll do it at cost for this person. As long as they get me this many speaking engagements in the group and they're going to actively push me and they're going to be working with me. So they're going to know how I operate. That's gold. Whenever we've done that with groups, I, I spoke at last Saturday at a group and one of our clients was there and they were all, you know, like once I was done speaking, they were like, why are you not booking a call? Like book a call like this has been transformational. That is way more powerful in a group than you just getting up and having a great call to action. Cause you're going to touch the nerve. Of a lot of people at most of these events that you go to because you're speaking on something that a lot of times doesn't get touched on the financial aspect. But if you have someone there that's on your team or that, you know, like as a client, it just amps it up that much more. So there's a couple key things that you can work your way through that just helps you get the first domino to more dominoes falling in the business. Yeah. So with that, I can potentially hear people listening and being like, well, I'm not confident enough to speak in front of groups, or I'm not quite confident enough in like the delivery of my services. So how did you get to the point where you were like, okay, I'm ready to start talking about this in front of groups? Yeah, I'm thinking through this question for myself too because it took me a while to get to this point of like, okay, I'm comfortable enough to talk to groups about this, I'm comfortable enough to stand behind the level of service and the value that we provide but I would love to hear your take on what got you to that point. Oh man, As the business has grown, this has been an ongoing thing in my mind too. This is nothing you ever conquer because the bigger you get, the more devils you have to, you know, more levels, more devils. But at the very beginning, it was there. I felt a lot of, what is that imposter syndrome? I had no financial background other than this business. I could read the profit and loss. I know how to enter, you know, bookkeeping transactions for the real estate world. There was some of that. That I had that knowledge, but like being a CFO and like knowing these types of things, like at the beginning, no idea, but I would still get up because I had helped a couple people at the beginning. A lot of times what gives you the most confidence is just those first few clients. Why did I even step out on faith and start this company? Because I helped the first person where I was literally still on his payroll. But he said, Just these few things have unlocked so much else for my business. That gave me a lot of confidence to start it. You know, that was the first domino that started it was saying, okay, I can at least deliver what I delivered to him, to other people that, which wasn't hard, just getting the books in order and giving them clarity of what was going in and going out. And what was he keeping? Like literally, that's how I started. Then from there was, okay. Now I'm going to these other events and I've got something that I could talk about, like for me, that's why I latch on to profit first, because someone else had created a system and a framework that appealed to entrepreneurs. And I'm like, I could do that because I have a little bit of that blood in me. So I could speak on that because I understand it. And for you as a bookkeeper accountant, you have that knowledge too, no matter what you, no matter what role you are, if you're a bookkeeper, CPA, accountant, like CFO, there's something that you are an expert. Like, you know, these things and these things are why you even started the business you started or want to start a bookkeeping business and jump into there. So it's like, what are those things that you're strong at? You might also want to get around the people that encourage you. I had a lot of great mentors say, this is great. This is a needed service. And this is where I have good connections for you to just start speaking. Oh my gosh. And if you saw my presentations back then versus today, I'm embarrassed. I'm literally getting second, I guess it's firsthand embarrassment because it's me, but firsthand embarrassment here for like thinking about what I spoke on back then and like all that stuff, I'm telling you. It's the practice. It is the practice of doing it over and over again. I am not this person that just came out like being a public speaker. Yes, this is me. If you know what a Friday and a wonderful Friday, Saturday night is being on the couch at home, either watching a movie with my wife and daughter or like playing games, you know, board games together. Like I'm very much an introvert. Very much a family person. I'm not the get on the stage and like, I want to be the face and the show and all that. That is not me. So I have the introvert tendencies and I still do. I still hate traveling. I still hate, you know, a lot of times even getting up to speak. I will say though. The more you do it, the better you get, but also, if you have something that you know does work, you know, you know that you've helped someone, you've gained that confidence, you've given someone that clarity, that's another huge shot in the arm, and you can start adding those stories into your presentations, then it's not all about you anymore. It's about the people you've helped and how other people can relate to those people. So that's why at the beginning, I didn't have a ton of stories. So I just said, this is how I've seen it help, you know, like in other instances or through this book that I read and like now I'm starting to do this and seeing a little bit of success. But then going forward, it's like, then you'll have more stories the longer you're into it. But if you're just getting started out, you're going to have imposter syndrome. You're not going to want to speak. You're going to have all the same feelings I felt. The difference, the difference in where I am now and where you are, wherever you are, unless you've got a multi seven figure business. And I don't say that to brag. It sounds bragging. I'm not. But if you get to this point, the only difference is you getting out there and doing that type of stuff. Getting on these podcasts, speaking when you don't want to speak, almost throwing up the first 40 times you get on stage or like you go on a podcast of someone else's like, these are all the feelings I had. I've had lots of feelings. Then try and get bigger and you're not the one providing the service anymore. At least when you're small, you bank on yourself. And you know, you, and if you took the, if you took the plunge to start your business, you at least know, like, Hey, I want to count on myself. I know I can do this. Like you already gave yourself a shot in the arm. If you're going to take the plunge into business ownership, what gets harder is you get bigger and then you have to have team members and you're like, Oh shoot. Am I going to be able to trust them? Did I build the right culture? Am I a good manager and effective leader and can lead them to care about the clients like I care about them? So it's like, as you get bigger, there's going to be other questions that circle in your head. I will say there's a great book. Read the book, The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. He is. Like The Business Godfather, he's an incredible author, puts it on the bottom shelf, but in that book he gives you a ton of questions to ask yourself when you hit different levels and when you hit different obstacles. He doesn't give you answers, he gives you hard questions to ask yourself. That's what's great about that book. So like, I would say if you're having... Difficulty speaking or doing those things. Take a look at that book. See how, what are the questions you should ask yourself? It might be, do you really want to grow? Maybe you you're scared of the success you might have going down that road. And if that's it, you got to stare that in the face or you're scared of flopping and being a failure, and you've got to stare that in the face. So there's a lots of different things that you're going to go through, but you're going to have to be really clear on where you want to be, what value you can provide. And honestly, for me. It's been, I have a background of faith. So I've told God, like, just take me out like of this business when you don't want me to grow it anymore. Like I'll go as far as I'm capable. And as far as you want to take me. So if you're a person of faith or not, it's like, okay, I want to do this for as long as I'm providing value to other people, as I'm really helping them, that honestly gives you a lot of confidence. I have a great confidence in my team. I can go on podcasts. I can speak because I have the confidence in them. And at the beginning it had to be borrowed confidence from the people that believed in me. Then as it got bigger, it was like, okay, I know I can do it. Then as we got bigger, okay, I know they can do it, you know? And it's like, that's where you have to go through it. And you have to just do some of the tasks. That you don't want to do. You don't want to speak, don't want to do these things. But then you have to say, do I really want to get to that next level? And if you don't, that's fine. Maybe you want to be a six figure business owner that keeps a lot of the profit and has a small team that's noble. Don't let these masterminds tell you, you have to get to seven figures or these other Facebook gurus out there or whatever, like. You're supposed to build what you're supposed to build, but the hardest part about business is being very clear on who you are and what you want and what you're really supposed to build. So that's, there you go, that, that devolved from like, how do you speak and all this stuff to like, it's really all about what are you supposed to do in your business and not living someone else's life in someone else's business. Oh, I love that. That is so good. Oh, that is so good. Okay. Yeah. It's really encouraging to hear others who come off with all this confidence and then to realize and learn like, Oh, you didn't start out there either. We all like your first podcast interview is going to be so cringy. Your first. Public speaking thing is going to be there. You're going to make mistakes. It's going to be ugly, but there's only up from there. Right. And you have to start at some point. Think of all firsts in life. I don't care if it's the first time you walked as a toddler, you know, as you know, a little tiny baby kid, you know, it's like your first steps weren't great. The first time you ever sang a song probably wasn't the best that you could ever sing it. Like the first time you've done anything in your life is not the best that you've ever done it. It's the same thing in business. You listen to any of those business gurus out there that know what they're talking about. That's what they all say to like marketing. You're not going to do great the first time when you throw money out the window. Marketing is a big test, but it's being able to pivot. A lot of people don't have that security on the financial end. That's where you can come in and kind of help them with that end and being like, okay, we're going to help you at least know where the money's going. So it's like you have a leg up because you tackle an area that no business owner. In their right mind, that's an entrepreneur, a visionary, usually loves. They usually don't love digging into the numbers, all the spreadsheets, being the numbers person. They love you though. They love you because you love that stuff and you dive into it. So that's the other thing too, is you have, you have a specific set of skills, you know, just like Liam Neeson in Taken. If you've ever seen that movie, he's like, I've got a specific set of skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. When, you know, when his stars take, I love that movie. But I digress, but it's like, you have a specific set of skills that is very valuable to that business owner where they would rather like dunk their head in sand and, you know, and like not know what they're, where they are and not look into their finances and, or become that financial expert. So it's like, you can go down that road and you can help them. It's just, you have to borrow that confidence upfront if you don't have it there. And then the work will pay off in spades with the confidence. Yeah, that is one of the things that I get a lot of bookkeepers that come into my programs or work with me in mentoring and most of the time They absolutely have all the skills that they need. It's just a matter of confidence. So if, what you need is to work with someone just to be able to say like, yes, you are doing it correctly, just to give you the confidence, then that's what you need to do. Get a mentor or, or have a. Work buddy that looks over your stuff and confirms, yes, you're doing it correctly. And yes, these are the, and talk to other business owners. That's the other thing. That's how I figured out what I needed to be talking about in these podcasts. Right. And on, you know, at masterminds and things is having one on one conversations with other business owners, whether they were my clients or other business owners that weren't my clients and asking them. how would you want this explained? what are some of your struggles? Like, what would make a difference here if you were to attend a presentation on financials? Like, what would you want it to be about? What do you want to know? That's such great advice. So, Okay. So the other thing that you had in your podcast intake form that I wanted to talk about is, and we kind of touched on it is, is building a culture, but you had talked about building a sales culture. This is one thing that as an accountant bookkeeper, In this world that we do, we run away from, we just like the entrepreneur runs towards sales and marketing, the financial people usually run away from it just as fast. Cause we don't want to be thought of as the used car salesman. I will tell you right now that there is a way to be able to sell where you're actually providing the value and you're not the used car salesman. But that is one thing. If you're the business owner. And I could give you a great, great set of advice that has helped me is becoming a salesperson and thinking of myself like that and taking off all the bad stigmas, because you know why? There's so many clients that we've been working with for years now that love us, that love what we provide, that have actually seen the true value. That's what sales means to me now. It means that it's another opportunity to help this person that's on the other end that has... No idea what's going on financially to actually shed light and become financially free because I believe if they're going to go out there and bust their behind to get money in the door, they need to keep the money. They need to know where it's going and have control over it. Well, it's the same for you. If you're going to be an expert on the financial side, I want you to know, how do I get more dollars in the door? Because more dollars represent those people that don't have any clarity in their business. So that's where I first get very clear on the mindset of I am helping people. Then I would read someone like Sandler, you know, like you can't teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar, like picking up that book, you know, like those types of things that, that tell you a sales process and how to ask good questions and. On a sales call, you should be talking 25 percent of the time or less. You should really just be digging in and asking them questions. that's the huge mistake I made at the beginning. I was always trying to sell or trying to tell about our services. And now I just sit back, ask about 10 questions and be like, okay, this does seem like a good fit or like, okay, we do not do this. I've got a good person for you. And then it doesn't even come selling at that point because you're not the right solution for them. Like if, you know. What you do and who you serve, then sales becomes even easier because either they fit that bucket or they don't. And if they're on that edge, you say, okay, okay, should this be something where we go down this road together? And if it is, maybe it's a shorter agreement timeframe. Cause I don't want to, I do not want to box myself into something that I'm going to hate continuously. But that's where I would, I would take that stigma off If you're going to build any type of business, you have to know the sales side. I follow people like Alex Hermosi, whether you like him or hate him, he's got some great things of how to ask great questions on a sales call, just that are non threatening, but that are getting to the root issue. I will say, if there's one practical piece of advice, you are just trying to get them to tell the truth, tell you the ultimate truth on that call. Because all you're trying to get to is, okay. I've heard Mr. Client, you know, potential client on the phone call here, Mr. or Miss here. Okay, you've told me that you have an issue, you don't have a good bookkeeper, you don't know your numbers, you're not paying yourself, you don't, you know, you have no clarity, you can't pull up a P& L and balance sheet. Like, you're telling me all the things that we provide. I've given you what our program is and you're kind of hemming and hawing. I just want to know is it the price? Do you not trust me? It's like I because if it's the price we can talk about maybe some programs that we have Or we might not be a good fit and you might need someone else That's cheaper because we stand by our work or is it you don't trust because if it's a trust factor I can't get over that and I need to get you to someone that you trust, but you're just trying to get And that's, that's very psychological too, because you're saying, is it the price? You're just trying to box in where they're really coming from. If it's the price, then we can isolate that. But if it's not, if it's the trust issue, that's emotional, you're trying to get them, okay, what's the real thing behind that? Then if you don't trust me, what is it? Did I say something? Is it me? Is it you, you know, like you don't like what we provide if that's it, then. We need to end this call here, or is it the timeframe? Is it, you think it's going to be too big of a hurdle? Like the value versus what you have to do type thing. You're just trying to box in what is the real objection here, because if we can't overcome it, then we should not work together. That's the other thing too. You have to be willing to let go. Mm-Hmm. where a lot of people aren't, especially when you're smaller. You just wanna take everyone, every single assignment, every single job, every single project, every single client. And it's harder. I get it.'cause upfront I was like that too. I took on a guy I should not have taken on upfront. It was a bigger contract and he was emailing me at like midnight and he was drunk and like cursing me out and I'm like, this is it. I'm never doing this again. It made one of our CFOs leave that I absolutely loved. That was a hard, hard lesson. I had to learn and I had to know I had to protect my culture. I have to protect my people. I have to protect my sanity. I don't want to be up at midnight, you know, like with these calls and, you know, emails and all that stuff. So learning to sell is not just all about selling. It's about really knowing who do you serve? And how do you serve them? Does it fit into this box? And if it does, taking it one step further and saying, okay, they're saying, you want to think about this because everyone says that, right? Let me run this past my spouse. Let me think about it. And I usually tell people, I'm usually very honest with them there. That's usually a way of people just never coming back. You know, and you just want to be polite and nice, which is fine. I do that with a lot of people as well, too. I just want to know, is it the price or is it something else? Just, just so if, if you're leaning forward or not. If you're not leaning forward, I also don't want to pressure you into anything that you don't want to do. So if I could give some practical advice, you're just trying to get to the root cause with people. You're trying to ask good, non threatening questions and tell them the truth and say, I know that this is usually a tactic because I use this tactic to be nice to people because I like to let people down easily. If you're doing that, I'd rather a hard no Then a soft yes, that turns into a maybe, that turns into follow up, that turns into me pestering you, that turns into us never working together, you know, where we both, you know, both waste time. So I would say become a student of sales because the better you are at sales, the less. Use car salesman you are. Like the better salesperson you are, the better questions you ask. That's why if you read the road less stupid, it's all about the questions you ask yourself as a business owner, which are some great questions in there for some sales, you know, like going through the financial aspect. Do you know your numbers? Could you pull up your profit and loss? What did you make? You know, did you keep anything last month? Are you paying yourself consistently? The questions that owners really care about, not who's your bookkeeper? What software do you use? That's the ticky tack stuff that you need to get in there. But like in order to get sales and to pay for people to cross the line, you need to say, this is the value I provide. You don't have numbers and you're not getting them consistently, then you probably don't make decisions based on the numbers at this point, right? You know, it's like asking those type of questions where they're thinking about, how do I connect the value to what you do? Then you're just trying to get the truth from them. Then I would read people that are actual, that people that you respect in the sales industry, because there are out there that are not the, the used car sales with that are going to just tell you to pressure people into the sale. Yeah, I, I always like to help, like, especially because bookkeepers and accountants, a lot of us identify as introverts. Yes. And so they, it's like, there's, me too, but there's this like fear that just because you're an introvert. That means that you're not going to be good at sales, but I actually think it's opposite. I think we are really good at sales once you start to allow yourself to adopt like what you're talking about. It's sales as a service. Like we're just offering our service. We're asking good questions and introverts are really good listeners. Yes. So most of my clients have come to me and they're like, wow, I just. I feel like I can tell you anything, right? Yes. That is so good. Yes. And if you're on that sales call that introverts have the advantage because they know when to sit back and think and think about what they're saying versus just always jumping in. That's where at the beginning, I thought I had to be someone I wasn't. Then I leaned into who I was as the introvert and just like, no, I want to hear where they're really coming from. And I got better at that. You know what else helps too? Doing it a lot of times, practicing. If you want to get even better, have someone review your calls with you. That is painful. That was one of the suckiest parts of growing the business was when I had to be critiqued by someone and like, here's what you should say. Here's where you shouldn't talk. Here's where you should shut up. But honestly, my sales increased way like by like 15 percent points just by having someone. Look at what I was doing and someone who had the experience. So like, if you want to amp it up, you get someone in your life who knows what the heck they're doing to critique you. But that takes a lot of emotional maturity to be able to take that feedback and then implement it and go from there. Not saying that I was the, I'm this great emotionally mature person, but it's like, I knew. I wanted to grow the business and I also didn't want to be the slimy sales person. I wanted to actually say, are we a good fit? And do we bat a hundred percent every time? No, that's the thing too. You got to give yourself grace. You're not going to bat a hundred percent, not just for sales, but the right people coming in too. So it's like, you might make a sale, but you shouldn't have, or you don't make a sale and you should have, but you're going to learn what could I have done? What should I have, you know, in that reflection after the fact, but there you go, there's some on the sale side and it's been a journey for me. I probably had 200 calls before I got really good at it. And I don't want that to discourage you. That's just give yourself the repetitions. If you like, I love what you said, even if they're not a potential bookkeeping client, you should get on and ask them some questions. Just get in the habit of asking people questions. What would be really a value to you? Or is there someone I could connect you to? Okay. You don't need bookkeeping, but is there anything else on the financial side? Cause I'm in the financial world. So I know some people that I could probably connect you to or whatever it might be. You're just getting in the question, in the question asking habit. And that's really what great salespeople are all about. I love John Maxwell's book, Great Leaders Ask Good Questions. Same thing. It's just always about asking the right questions. Yeah, absolutely. One thing that you said a moment ago was about reflection. So even if you don't hire somebody to come in and review your own sales calls after you get off of a call with a client, whether you know how it's gone or not, reflect immediately because that's good. I'm reading a book right now. I'm like in this. whole realm of learning how to practice better and become a better musician. One of the books that I'm reading is called Make It Stick, and it's about how, how to learn basically, and how to practice, and, and reflection is a huge component in, in having things committed to long term memory. So even if that's the only thing you do, it will help. 100%. I stand by that because it's easy. It's easy to say, well, he does this all the time. I started small. I started with one client. Like I did not grow. I was not this huge company that I bought and took over. It was, there's a lot of working on myself. That's really the thing. You have to break through your own ceilings to get to the next level. If you're supposed to get there, it's also not bad for you to be where you are. That's the other thing. I don't want you thinking I need to be as big as David unless you're supposed to. Maybe you're supposed to beat me. Maybe you're not supposed to. Like, that's where you have to really have introspection, because that's where you're going to have to learn a lot of different skills. I have to learn at this point to lead other leaders. Like before it was leading myself and being the doer, then it was, okay, I need to not only lead myself. I need other people on the team helping implement. Now it's like, I need leaders on the team that help other people with the implementation and I need to remove their roadblocks. So it's like, you going to go through these cycles for a lot of the different areas, but it's like, If you took, like I said, the risk on yourself to start the business, you just have to ask yourself, how big do you want to get and what to, what are the skills that correlate with that size of business that you have to learn? Yeah. Yeah. Even if, like you said, if you're not supposed to grow bigger, there's still personal ceilings you have to break through to just maintain where you're at or to hire someone to help you, even if you're not necessarily growing or whatever the case may be, There's still your own personal work to work through. So, all right. Okay. So let us know as we're coming up on time I know that you, hire or work with other accountants and, bring them on as contractors to be fractional CFOs. Can you talk a little bit about that side of it? So at Simple CFO, I've built an outsourced. Accounting model where we have a fractional CFO business, but you can join our team and to be in the rotation to receive clients from us. So where if you, even if you have your own business, a lot of the CFOs that we have on our team, you know, started off maybe in the bookkeeping accounting, you know, maybe business financial coach space, but they want to be a CFO. They want to have, you know, the higher level conversations, or you're already a fractional CFO and you're already providing that. And you just want an outlet we're a sales and marketing engine. And then we give the clients to the people that are in our sphere. I'm very big on, we have to be on the same, you know, the same drive, culture, values, that type of thing. So if you resonate with what we're doing, cause you know, like our 10 year goal is to give a million dollars. Like the things that we want to do is create freedom for our people and our clients. Like that's what the things that we want to provide to our people. So if that interests you, that's what we're trying to do is trying to just build our team so we can take on more clients inside of here. We do three phases of training too, where you get training and resources, you get a mentor in phase two, and then phase three is you get, you know, the clients that you want being a full phase three, you know, certified simple CFO through us. So that's what we do. We train you to be a CFO. Number one, we give you a mentor. Number two, you know, like with your first client and then from there, they sign up and then you get, you know, the clients as many as you want for your capacity, then we start getting those clients to you. So that's what simple CFO does. Do you mind if I give the. Like there's a link, of course, I've always got the call to action, right? I told you about this. I practice what I preach here. So if you go to simplecfo. com forward slash join, you can see too, like some of the things that we provide and what makes us different, and if you want to become part of that network, you could still have your own business. You could still do your own thing. Like I said, a lot of people do. We just want to train you on how to be more of that coach, that, you know, financial doctor going in and assessing what's wrong with the business and really helping business owners from the higher point of view. So if that sounds interesting to you and resonates with you, then we just get on a quick call to see if it's a good fit and then go from there and then you start the training resources and mentorship. Awesome. And is this mainly for real estate clients or are you more broad than that? We're broader now just because of what this has become and, uh, in the services space here. So we work with a lot of different type people, online businesses, brick and mortar businesses, restaurants, auto body shops. We still work with a lot of real estate investors. So if you have real estate investing experience, that's great too. Cause we still work with a lot of them, but that's where. Now it's kind of branching out to other industries just because of not just word of mouth, but the other events I'm going to as well too. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time. I have one last question though. Yeah, let's do it. For, for anyone just starting out, because I know a lot of our listeners are like thinking about starting a bookkeeping or accounting business. What would you say is is a piece of advice that maybe helped you early on or something that you can impart to our listener who is like thinking of taking the leap or at the early stages of their business. Yeah. Oh man. One piece of advice. The biggest challenges you're going to face are those internal battles. That we talked about this whole podcast, like the self reflection, the not do, am I going to make it? And you might need to, like, when I took the plunge, I didn't even fully take the plunge. Like I started my own business, but my first client was the guy I was working with because he said, I want to be your first client. That might be the case for you. Like if you're working with someone and you tell them. If you've built a good relationship and say, I'm doing this, they might be your first client. If not, you might want to secure some clients first in that space, or start going to some of these events, and to really reflect, do I want to do this? Reading those books. I would say the one biggest thing though, is that you're going to need to overcome is that initial fear of, do I want to take the risk on myself? You know, yourself, if you're not in that place mentally, there's great people like Serena here, and there's great people like, oh man, so many people out there in this space. That want to help you and that are wanting you to become a profitable business owner as a bookkeeper, accountant, or CFO, or whatever it is you want to do. You might want to just get that education, but don't overanalyze, which I'm telling, telling you as the financial expert, that's the other thing that's going to trip you up is you're going to want all the data first, before you take the plunge. I get it. I a hundred percent understand that. I just also, if you know, you're supposed to do it. You need to also listen to that internal voice, and I know that you're going to make it happen. That's where you've got that voice inside of you, listen to that, make sure that it does work too, like also make sure that you've got some things lined up and taking that plunge, but I would say. Work on yourself the most, because that's going to never stop no matter how small you are, how big you are. We've talked about that several times. So there's a couple pieces of advice here. If you're just jumping into it or thinking about jumping into it, I would, honestly, for what you're offering, like, I would, I would jump all over that with, you've got courses, you've got different things that you do as well, too. So it's like, listen to this podcast, like just listen to all the other people that have taken the plunge as well and what they've gone through, you're going to, you want to network like this. To be able to rub shoulders with other people that are like minded. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time. And where's the best place for people to connect with you if they want to follow you? I mean, go to simplecfo. com forward slash join. That's the best place if you want to connect there. If you go to simplecfo. com without the join, that's just our regular site. You can see how we're marketing to You know, for clients and what we're doing and a schedule a call, like you could look at all that. And then on Instagram, I'm Richter, scale 91 on Facebook, it's David Richter. So if you just wanna either follow me or if you wanna look at that stuff on there as well too, that's where I am at. But I want you to look at all the stuff, look at what, what I've gone down, listen to some of the stuff that I've gone through so you can avoid some of those hurdles. But that's where you can connect with me on a couple of those different places. Wonderful. All right, we will link all the things that we talked about in the show notes, some books that we talked about, and all that good stuff. Thank you so much once again for joining me on the podcast and we'll talk to you for having me.