The Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast

121 ⎸ Replacing your corporate benefits with Karrisa Martino

• Serena Shoup, CPA • Episode 121

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How do you handle replacing those cushy corporate benefits you’ll lose when you leave your corporate job and strike out on your own?

In todays episode, I’m chatting with a benefits expert who specializes in setting up benefits for small businesses.

In this episode you’ll hear:

  • The kinds of Insurance out there
  • The importance of working with a broker
  • How to determine what you really need in your coverage
  • What to do before you go to the doctor if you aren't in an emergency situation
  • What to do if you want to offer a benefits package for your team

About our Guest:

Karrisa Martino is a health and life insurance broker specializing in customized plans for small businesses and self-employed individuals. She operates in the greater Cincinnati, Ohio area and serves clients nationwide, empowering them to understand the various insurance options available and how to utilize them effectively. Karrisa embarked on this career path in search of a job that would allow her to have a greater impact on people's lives. Unfortunately, she has experienced the loss of four family members before the age of 30 due to being in the wrong insurance product or lacking proper advocacy. Outside of work, Karrisa is a creative individual who has a deep connection with nature and expresses her creativity through various mediums.


Connect with Karrisa on LinkedIn or Facebook

Want a review of your current policy? Email Karrisa at karrisa@usabg.com OR call/text her at 513-434-4466


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as long as you're honest with me, then. We should be perfectly fine, and you should always be able to get through any of the policies that I ever show you. If you're one of those random people that decide that you want to keep a skeleton in your closet and not tell me, then there is, all bets are off. I had a client who we were in the middle of doing the application, one of the questions said in the last five years, have you had a lump mass cancer or tumor? And so he told me to click no, and so I clicked no, and I hit the next page. And he said, wait, he said, what's up? He goes, could you go back? And I said, sure. And so I hit the back button and he goes, could you define for me what cancer, tumor, lump, or mass means? And I just kind of sat there for a second and I was like yep, nope, not coming up with another way I could do that. I'm sorry. I was like, I really can't think of another way. He goes, well, I guess I should tell you that I had a lump removed from my brain last year. I, I literally wanted to look at him and go, thank you for testing my poker face on zoom right now. You didn't think that that was a big deal. Like someone went into your skull, dude. Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper podcast. On today's episode, I am interviewing someone who specializes in small business insurance and benefits when it pertains to like health benefits and things like that. it's always a big question for bookkeepers and accountants who are leaving their corporate job. And they are always like, what am I going to do when I lose my cushy benefits? So welcome, Carissa. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself? Certainly. Thank you so much for having me, Serena. You know, I Got into benefits kind of unbeknownst to me. I never really thought that I'd be here. But as most people's stories go nowadays, I got into it during COVID. I was really looking for a way to just benefit people more than what I had been doing with my current job. And at that point, I had been helping other people run their businesses, but I just wasn't getting that same kind of fulfillment. Lo and behold, a recruiter found me and reached out and to be honest, I don't want to give him the time of day because I've never liked anyone in this industry. So I had a really bad taste in my mouth about what it was. And he said something that made me a little bit curious, and I found out that being in this particular organization. meant that I was going to be able to run my business the way that I want, I can treat my clients the way that I want, and I can also advocate for them, which is very near and dear to my heart because by the time I was 25, I had lost four family members in my life to either not being in the right product or not having an advocate. And so I want to make sure that other families don't have to feel that same pain. I love, I love that. whoo. Okay. So you and I met on Alignable in like a networking, which I haven't even been to really any since then because I've just been so slammed, but we were in like, a women's networking Zoom call or something, and we did a breakout room. And I think you and I were in the same breakout room, kind of got to know each other a little bit. And then we decided to connect and I was like, I need you on the podcast because my whole entire audience basically are, are accountants and bookkeepers who are a either leaving corporate and part of why they haven't made the leap is because they don't want to lose their benefits. Like they have family members with, health issues or whatever and they have really awesome benefits and insurance through their employer. And so that's a big question mark for people and it prevents a lot of people for, from taking the leap. And then the other side are a lot of my listeners and audience. are already in business on their own and they're starting to build teams and they want to offer benefits and insurance and things. And so I was like, this would be perfect. You should come on the podcast and talk about these things. And when we connected offline and had like a deeper conversation, we were talking about how the benefits and insurance stuff is so scary to a lot of people because. there's so much unknown. There's so many caveats and different insurance plans and you really have to understand and take control and educate yourself about what's in your plan. what is your risk tolerance and all the things and like advocate for yourself when you go into the doctor before you have services done, you need to understand your plan. So anyway, this is why you're here. So where should we start? First and foremost, I'd love to start out with, you know, let's validate everything that you just said, because first and foremost, understand that I have to have a federal license to be able to talk to you about the different kinds of plans that I even have available, which are available through 80 different carriers. So trust me, it is a whirlwind keeping all of it straight, but I'm I don't blame anyone for thinking that it's super complicated. I remember coming into the industry and being very angry that I had not learned so many of the things that I even learned just in my first two weeks in the industry. But first and foremost, if you are interested in getting out of the corporate world and benefits are the thing that's holding you back, don't be scared because it's not as scary as you think it is at the end of the day. And It's not just in this industry, but there are so many industries where that's what I'm hearing is people want to step out, but this is 1 of the things that are holding them back. So it's definitely worth the conversation. You know, and when you meet with someone, I would always recommend that you meet with a broker. So, even if you're not going to meet with me in particular, meet with a broker. And the reason why. Is that a broker has access to more than 1 company. If you're calling UnitedHealthcare, they're only going to talk to you about UnitedHealthcare. Okay, if you call someone from Cigna, they're only going to talk to you about Cigna. But if you call a broker, I can talk to you about UnitedHealthcare, Cigna, and probably companies you've never even heard of called, you know, like Manhattan Life, for example. They've been around since 1850, right? So there are. Private and public plans that are available to those who self insure and sometimes it can be even better than the insurance that you had before. And then same thing for small business employers, you know, getting connected to the right people. For example, we do traditional group insurance programs. However, Doing a non traditional form of that usually saves small business owners thousands of dollars and gives them a better benefits package anyway, which increases that total compensation package that makes them way more competitive in the market. Yeah, that's so important. And one thing you, one thing you said is like you learned more in the first two weeks of being in the industry than you had ever known before. And you had a little bit of a background in the industry, right? So part of like, I kind of feel like Thank you. A lot of the information is just almost gatekeeped or something, gatekept, I guess. I don't know, but it's like, it's just this, like, scary black box that there's so much unknown about it. Like, why do you think that is? So, in part, it's that there's a lot of federal regulations, which is why it needs a federal license to, you know, sell and everything else. And so. Problem number one is nobody wants to be culpable. So even doctors nowadays don't want to really work with your insurance because they don't want to come back to you and go, well, it's going to cost X, Y, Z with the insurance. And then you get the bill and it's something different. Right? They don't want to be culpable in any manner. And then the other nature of it is that there are constantly things that are changing at both the federal and the state level, because every plan that comes into a state has to be accepted by the state. And if it's not, then it's not going to be there. So keeping up with all these changes, and there's even stuff in Congress that we're watching right now. Now, hopefully none of it will actually go through, but hopefully, I mean, we're standing on precedent. So precedent says that it's likely going to be overturned. But the point being is that it's constantly changing. And then the nature of health care is also constantly changing, which keeps everybody on their toes, you know, new new styles of treatment, you know, new regulations on doctors about how they prescribe what they prescribe, what kind of advice they're giving you. So, between the 2 things, right, you're talking about health insurance, but you're also talking about health care and they're very ever changing industries. So, finding someone who can be an expert in both is kind of tough. But it is something that, you know, in our organization, we pride ourselves on trying to keep up with everything, especially because we work nationally and just understanding, you know, how to put and position our clients in the best spot and also educate them. And empower them up front. So these things that, you know, you're not going to learn from your doctor, that your insurance company isn't going to take the time to explain to you, because I probably spend an average of at least an hour just educating my clients before they actually have their new cards in hand and they're walking out the door. You know, all that time is money that an insurance company can't spend. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I guess, like, a good place to start would be for someone that is like, I'm clueless, right? Like, starting at point A, when someone is like, I've never had to consider this before. They kind of just say, handed us... A couple plans to choose from at corporate and I basically chose the plan based on how much was going to be taken out of my paycheck. That or the deductible. Right. One of the two. So, where do you want to, like, if someone is like, okay, where do I even start? I guess a good place to start is what kind of insurances are out there or... Actually, let's start before that. Let's first identify what you have. Okay, because that gives me a base point of your understanding. So I want to know what you have right now, what you like about it, and what you don't like about it. Ooh, can we role play? Yeah, we can absolutely do that. Awesome. So, I have a plan that has, like, a pretty, like, pretty good monthly cost or whatever. I guess that's called a premium, right? Yep. If we're using the right lingo. The monthly premium is the amount that I pay every month. And if you're in corporate, this comes out of your paycheck, your... Your employer is probably paying a huge portion of that, like 50 to 90 percent of it so the amount that you're getting or seeing come out of your paycheck is probably not what you're going to be paying when you're. Doing this on your own, you're going to be paying more. So there's the premium that I like. I like that I, you know, have really low co pays when I go to doctors. I like that I can go to any doctor I want to without a referral. So if I, like, for example, I recently went to a dermatologist and I didn't need my primary care physician to refer me over there. I just made an appointment at a dermatologist that accepts my insurance. So those are the things I like about my plan. I guess as far as a deductible, it's kind of high, but it's doable. Can you define high for me? Like elaborate just a little bit more? I guess high is like, I would say it seems high, but it's probably not in the grand scheme of things, but like, it's under 10, 000. But it's still kind of like, you know, for a lot of people, if you think about like how much you have in an emergency fund, like would you wipe out your entire emergency fund? Probably. Absolutely. That type of situation. So there we go. That's where I'm at. Okay. And if you could change two things about your plan, what would those be? If I could change two things about my plan? Well, that's a good question. I would say Maybe lower the like, what I'm paying out of pocket, I guess, which there's all these terms that people are like, oh my gosh, guys are like, throwing all these things because there's like an out of pocket maximum and like your deductible and sometimes your out of pocket gets applied to your deductible and sometimes it doesn't and all the things, but I would say like, I'm pretty happy with my plan. I think I would only change like the amount that I'm paying out of pocket. Like, and maybe deductible is a little bit high, but it's still not considered like a high deductible plan, which is crazy. No, that I understand. So believe it or not, our average maximum out of pocket, which is what I try to steer my clients to be more focused on, because your deductible could be really low. But if you're still looking at a maximum out of pocket of 15, 000, right? The deductible is not the important thing at that point, right? It's the fact that you're on the hook for the 15, 000 in total. And then depending on the way that the policy is written, probably double that in a family situation. Right? Yeah. So what we look at based on. What you told me is I'd make sure that you, I would double check like actual specifics that we're not going to get into for the sake of role playing here, but, you know, making sure that your network has worked for you that you're even aware of your network because many people out there have a card, they randomly go to a doctor and they pray that they're in network, which blows my mind. So that's how I end up getting surprise bills and thinking that their, their insurance is crappy. And it's because they missed the fact that they have a network, right? There are several plans on the market that don't require you to have the referral and that is becoming a very popular want and expectation, so I generally steer towards those plans anyway, but I would review kind of what do you do in a year outside of like your annuals? Is there something that you're doing regularly? if there's something that you're going through right now, what kind of medications are you on? Because, as we start to look at all these different options, we can begin to look at plans that involve something called underwriting. And so underwriting is when they look at your health history, and they determine, you know, if you qualify to be insured with the company for the policy that you're applying for. And so I try to always set up people for success. So, as long as you're honest with me, then. We should be perfectly fine, and you should always be able to get through any of the policies that I ever show you. If you're one of those random people that decide that you want to keep a skeleton in your closet and not tell me, then there is, all bets are off. I had a client once, you're smiling, this is, this is going to make you laugh, I had a client who we were in the middle of doing the application, and we had spoken on three different occasions. And one of the questions said in the last five years, have you had a lump mass cancer or tumor? Right? And so they ask those, like, big things. And for most people, the answer is no, right? And so he told me to click no, and so I clicked no, and I hit the next page. And he said, wait, he said, what's up? He goes, could you go back? And I said, sure. And so I hit the back button and he goes, could you define for me what cancer, tumor, lump, or mass means? And I just kind of sat there for a second and I was like yep, nope, not coming up with another way I could do that. I'm sorry. I was like, I really can't think of another way. He goes, well, I guess I should tell you that I had a lump removed from my brain last year. I, I literally wanted to look at him and go, thank you for testing my poker face on zoom right now. You didn't think that that was a big deal. Like someone went into your skull, dude. Yeah. Needless to say, we had to pivot. Yeah, but I'm definitely always working to set my clients up for success. And so sometimes it's a conversation of, you know, what is your actual monthly budget? Like, what can you handle? And then let's do our best to balance the out of pocket costs that you're going to have on the actual plan itself. So, including your co pays, your deductibles, your coinsurance, that maximum out of pocket, all that fun stuff. And then figuring out the exact right package for you. So when you go to Berger, like myself, what we can do is we can put together an entire package that addresses pretty much everything that you said right there, but probably utilizing more than one company and more than one type of policy. And we do that because each company kind of specializes in something, you know, and that can be applied to just about. Anything out there, right? So what Toyota specializes in is going to be entirely different from what McLaren specializes in if you're a car person, right? So we put all of that together, educate you on how to use it. I send you an appointment summary that you can come back to at any point. And then you have free reign to call and text me at any point. If you have a question, cool, text me. If it's not an emergency and you're getting ready to go somewhere, text me and go, hey, you know, is, is so and so in network, you know, unless we've already checked or. Hey, which card do I present first? Whatever the conversation is, we're here to make sure that we're set up for success. Wow, that is some above and beyond service. Awesome. So one of the other things too is like, you're kind of getting into talking about like what to do at the doctor before an emergency situation. And like one of the examples that I have is... Like, when I went to the dermatologist, like, I did look to make sure they were in network, because a lot of doctors will say they accept insurance that you have. They'll list all the insurances that they accept, but it doesn't mean they're contracted and in network with that insurance. So that's number one, what you guys need to do is, like, actually find out who they're in network with. And then number two, making sure that, like, When I went to the dermatologist, for example, the practice has multiple doctors in it, but not all doctors are always contracted and in network with the insurance at the practice. So when I saw the PA at the practice, I was like, she's not listed on my insurance network. I need you to make sure you bill this under a doctor that is. Otherwise I'm not paying this bill basically. But that's one of the things that like you can get. Kind of like, not tricked, but you will, it, it's an over, it can become an oversight because you see the practice name or a doctor at the practices in network, but maybe the one that you're actually seeing isn't, so you just have to be clear with the office staff or whoever that like, please make sure this gets billed correctly. Otherwise, you're not going to get paid. Absolutely. So. And the same thing with referrals. So, I've seen it happen before. And this will happen at all levels of care, right? This could happen at, you know, an annual where they recommend you know, and refer you out to a dermatologist all the way up to, I even had a cancer client that their surgeon was recommending them. to a different surgeon because they weren't able to complete the the surgery themselves for cancer, right? So this will happen at all levels of care. So just because you get a referral or recommendation of a different doctor, you know, unfortunately that doctor is not going to do their due diligence to make sure that the person that they're recommending is a network for you. So you're still going to have to go back and do that. And most companies make it pretty easy to get into your network provider tool. I usually recommend that if you're not going to download the app for your insurance on your phone, that you bookmark just the provider search alone, since you might need to access it pretty quickly and call it a day. Yeah, that's such a good tip. Such a good tip. And then also, like, there's also issues with sometimes that tool isn't updated timely. We've come across that before, too, and been like, this, it said you were in network or like, we call the doctor's office and they said we were, they were in network, but the provider tool hasn't been updated. So it's not showing up or vice versa. So just things to be aware of. Absolutely. And then the other way that you can kind of help protect yourself in those situations is to look at various types of supplemental insurance that are out there. so there are certain ones that you know, act kind of like HSA accounts. So, in the instance that you end up in a not in network situation, and you're going to be putting the entire bill, you might use something like that, or you might use a plan that. Is supplemental, very comprehensive, even includes, you know, doctor's visit coverage. And so you might utilize that for out of network coverage as well, knowing that you have those dollars available from that insurance to help mitigate some of that out of pocket costs as well. Oh, that's smart. Yeah. Okay. So I'm looking at my list of questions. And we've kind of touched on some of them, but what about from, like, if you're switching to like the standpoint of the business owner offering benefits for your employees, because we're kind of talking about, like, you as the employee or you as the customer. Insurance holder, I guess, or like benefits holder. But what about if you are the CEO and you are starting to hire a team and you want to offer a benefits package, can you talk a little bit about like how you help with that and some things to think about as you consider offering benefits to your team? Absolutely. So first things first, no matter what, the very first basis that I need is called a census form. Okay, so I go through this individually when I'm just talking to either sole proprietors or families or whoever is self insuring. But when I talk to a business owner the method that we typically take is, okay, you know, first off, do you have an idea in mind of what you would like to offer? Okay, so that way it gives me kind of a clear picture up front and we'll have that. Conversation, it's maybe 5 to 10 minutes on average, usually. Then what I do is I send them a census form, which allows me to collect the details that I need in order to get an accurate quote. All right, and so I have a form that we've developed and I have highlighted areas on it and I tell people, you know, I know that this feels a little invasive at 1st, especially if you haven't been through this when an employer starts to suddenly offer this and they're not a really big corporation. But anything that's highlighted, I absolutely have to have in order to have an accurate quote. So then after I have spoken with the business owner about the type of plan that they would like to offer, because there are many options that are even out there, then I'll take the basic details. So I typically take the name, Gender, and zip code, and I put that into an Excel form, and then I put different columns of different options down there for the employer to see, and we tie it up with a nice, neat, very easily readable boat. Then I sit down with the employer themselves, and again, these personal details never go out to the employer, so you can return those census forms directly to. Your employer, you can email it directly to me. You can fax it directly to me. You can give me a call and I'll do the interview individually. If there are things that you don't want your employer knowing, right? So, the only details that they get are your zip code, which they're already going to have because you hired them, right? Your gender and your name on that Excel form. Then I talk through with the employer, you know, what are these numbers going to look like? And once they've determined the kind of package that they want to move forward with offering, then I'll do individual interviews. If I'm doing a non traditional group insurance, I'll do individual interviews to explain to everyone the exact package that's being offered tell them what their portion is going to be, and get them actively enrolled. If we do the non traditional form where I'm basically building out individual policies for everyone, then we put it all on a list bill to make it really easy for the employer. The employer just pulls The correct amount out of their paycheck every single month. However, that works out whether it's weekly, bi weekly, whatever to reimburse themselves. And then they just pay the insurance company for the full premium after they've reimbursed themselves. Now, if we're looking at doing a traditional group policy, and people might like that for various reasons, right? Like, for example, I am working with a title company here locally and. They're an older group of people, okay, so they're not young chickens, and they've primarily been on traditional group insurance for their entire lives. So I told them I'd work up some numbers, and I put the non traditional and the traditional side by side. The non traditional was actually going to save them significant money to the traditional but they decided that they wanted to stay with something that was familiar. I still ended up saving them money from the rate increase that they were going to get this year. So we ended up saving them, I think, 45, 000 and some change, just by looking at a different carrier. by the way, insurance should be reviewed every single year if that kind of wasn't obvious from some of my statements, but either way, so those, those are 2 different options. And that's kind of the way that we walk forward through that. The other really great thing is that. You don't have to worry about having an HR department or a benefits administrator to take care of all this for you. I become that person. So when, when I take that on, then that's one less person that you don't have to worry about hiring on to take care of this the way that you would if you were a bigger corporation because they have HR and HR takes care of all. Yeah. Which is funny too because Even in those situations, they're still outsourcing that piece to a broker. Like, HR isn't actually, like, really that knowledgeable about all those things either. The brokers come in, educate the employees. We contact the brokers when an employee has something that's denied. Like, it's just, it's funny. But but yeah, so it's, that is awesome that you provide The traditional and the non traditional way to do things as well. There was some, a question that came up as you were talking that I'm trying to remember. So one of the things, oh, it was like the census thing. So. With that, you're also collecting information about the dependents, correct? Not just the employees. So keep that in mind, like, as you're, and that's why you do, will do individual interviews so that if the employee doesn't want to share with you, the employer, information about their household, they don't have to. Okay. Well, not just that, but think of it this way, you know I don't know how chummy most people are with their employers, but if you have a medical condition going on that you haven't felt comfortable enough talking to, you know, your employer about, then that protects you. Right? I'm the only one who needs to know that and I need to know that for the sake of knowing what you qualify for with insurance and to tell you how the continuation of your care is actually going to be. Right? So those are the big things, but if, if, for example, you know, I don't know, you could have all sorts of things like insomnia, maybe you don't want to be judged for that, or, you know, you have something else going on, or even if you have something going on right now. So, for example, I had a client come in and they were in the middle of having a very expensive reproductive surgery that we had to do because, her hysterectomy went wrong. And so we were talking about what was that going to look like? That's not something an employer needs to know. They just need to know that you need medical leave during the surgery if you don't feel comfortable sharing that. So the individual interview is set up. 1, because I want to make sure that that person has an opportunity to speak to me 1 to 1, not just about, you know, what's going on in their life. But I also want people to have the opportunity to feel free to ask whatever question they have. If I were to do something in a group like that, which I've seen people do before, and I'm not going to say that it's bad, but I also know that most people don't ask a whole lot of questions in a group setting. And I want you to ask me whatever questions you have. Yeah. That is so important. I didn't realize that. Yeah, we never had the opportunity to have an individual discussion with insurance brokers. Like, you kind of like, or just take what, what is available and you have to make sure that your medical situation is going to be covered and that's kind of like the work you have to do on your own. That's like, yeah, it's crazy. There's, it's great that you're offering this as a service. That's amazing. So, With that, is there anything that you feel like we haven't covered that is important to know either on the employer end or as, you know, someone leaving corporate looking to provide their own or purchase their own benefits, basically? I would say there may be things that you think are important to your coverage that maybe aren't in reality. So, for example, 1 of those things might be like short term and long term disability while they're nice to have 1st and foremost, we need to check that on the individual market. You even qualify for a payout within your industry. If something were to happen to you, because there's certain things, you know, for example. Wow. You know, bookkeepers that work remotely. You guys would have to go through something pretty serious for short term and long term disability to effectively pay out. And the reason why is because you primarily sit in a chair and do everything over Zoom like this. So, the insurance company would go, you know, your ability to work is not nearly as hindered as say, for example, someone who works in construction that lays concrete. All day long, if they get injured, then they physically can't go to work and their ability to act within their trade is completely diminished. Right so there are certain pieces that people are just used to having because employers traditionally offer them and they may or may not be important. You also might look at alternative ways to get some of these benefits as well, because when you move into the individual market, things are no longer as competitive rate wise, because we're not spreading out the risk across an entire group. It's just you and potentially your family, depending on what your situation is. So we might look at doing disability in the form of having accident coverage that has something that will pay out in the event of some sort of chronic issue and then the same thing for critical illness, because those are the two big things that will cause a disability in the first place, would you agree? So be, be open to looking at different kinds of coverage. And just be honest with whoever you're talking to about what your needs are. Because we don't want to over insure you, right? But I also want to properly insure you. How often do you actually need vision coverage? Okay, because people are like, oh my god, I have to have it. And I'm like, okay, but how often do you get glasses? Well, maybe once every three years. Okay, so if you're not getting contacts in the meantime, you only need vision insurance once every 3 years. You don't need to be paying the premium for a policy that you're not going to use those other 2 years. Right? And it's important to also understand, you know, how often you can do those types of things, but also just know what your needs are. And then if you have a life insurance, you know, we can absolutely look at those types of things, but. You know, what did you get the life insurance for? Is it because you want to make sure that your final expenses are covered in the event that you have an untimely death? Is it because you want to make sure that, your mortgage, your house, your debt, and all of that kind of stuff is taken care of so that your family doesn't have to be burdened with that income so that your family also doesn't have to feel, So much of a burden by having your income impacted or even education, you know, do you have young kids? Do you want to help provide for their education? Those kinds of things. And then, like you said, just looking at what is your risk tolerance and being able to have a conversation because I sometimes find that when I come into a place with a new client that they're very obsessed and focused on very specific things, like the deductible that I mentioned earlier, or even copays. You know what I mean? Some people are like, you know, I have to have a low copay to go see the doctor. Okay, but if that lower copay is going to cost you an extra $200 a month and you're primarily only doing preventative care, is it really worth it? Pay the extra 10, $15 on the copay and take the savings overall, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. One of the things that we did when we're evaluating new plans from leaving corporate was like, okay. How much do we have in an emergency savings versus how much do we want to be spending on premiums throughout the year? And like, finding the happy medium of like, we can actually afford, like, we would rather put all of that money that we would be or that difference that you would be spending on higher premiums into an emergency savings that is interest bearing, so it's making us money, and then if we need to use it, we just... We take the higher deductible or whatever, that might not work for someone who has an illness or medications and things like that. So that's why it's really important to talk to someone like you that can help evaluate like what are your actual needs because I feel like a lot of people we just don't even really know until we kind of like go through everything with a fine tooth comb, so. Yeah. And then sometimes it's a, what do you actually need versus what do you want? Yeah. Because it's the same kind of situation where you'll come into contact with someone that says, you know, I want X, Y, Z, right? But you're like, you don't actually need that. And it's just wasted, you know, versus we could put that same money over here in this other policy that you do actually need and that could benefit you. Yeah. It's kind of like when you're If you ever work with a realtor and you're house shopping, they'll be like, okay, what are your like, must haves in a new house versus the things that are nice to have? And then what are the deal breakers? Like, you got to do that same thing with insurance and all that kind of stuff. So if someone is. wants to have a conversation with you because clearly, like, you know your stuff. So if anyone is listening and you, like, need benefits or you're thinking about setting up benefits for your team, like, please connect with Carissa. Where is the best place to connect with you? You can do it whatever way is best for you. So I have my email. it's My first name, which is spelled K A R R I S A A T U S A B G, that's B as in boy, G as in girl, dot com. Or you can call or text me directly, that number is 513 434 8255. 4466 and I'd be happy even just to do a review and I promise I'm not super salesy, but I can get into this to be that way. I'm very educational. So even if you just want to review the current policy that you have, which we should do on a regular basis, I would love to be able to help with that. Awesome. Thank you so much. And we'll link those resources and information in the show notes. Any final parting words? Thank you so much for inviting me to do this. This was very fun and hopefully your listeners found it viable. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing everything, you know, super, super informative and healthcare is a subject that is just so intimidating. So hopefully this made people feel a little more at ease and yeah, thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you.

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