79 ⎸ Accounting for Cannabis with Simone Cimiluca-Radzins

In this episode, I interview Simone, founder & host of the Cannabis Business Minds Podcast, a former auditor and current consultant in the financial industry. She shares her story about getting into cannabis accounting and how she helps accountants and cannabis customers navigate the industry. Many tips will translate into any type of accounting practice.

In this episode you’ll hear:

• Freelance vs consulting
• The importance of pre-education in acquiring clients
• Interviewing business owners to learn their pain points
• Changing the accounting industry
• And more!

About our guest:

Simone Cimiluca-Radzins is a CPA with a vision to see a world where financial freedom is attainable for every individual that can dream, train, hustle, and repeat.

Simone has more than a decade of experience helping Fortune 500 companies and startups improve operations, raise capital, and build better strategies to drive profit and empower employees.

From corporate to cannabis, Simone made the jump into entrepreneurship in 2015 working with governments, community organizations, and startups to help build the nascent cannabis industry.

Today, Simone trains entrepreneurs on how to confidently find their place as a CEO and have the tools to build a profitable business.

Connect with Simone:

• LinkedIn
• Her podcast: CannabisBusinessMinds.com
• Instagram: @businesswithsimone and @cannabisbusinessminds
• Accountants Guide to Working in Cannabis download available here: https://www.cbmnetwork.com/courses/cfb

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Earmark CPE (You can get CPE for listening to our interview episodes like this one… new episodes being added frequently!)

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Transcript

Simone: 1:42

I just knew. And so from there I started, cuz I'm a former auditor, I started doing interviews. I started, you know, really trying to understand like what were the pain points in the industry. Cause at that point I was like more thinking about like, how can I be an entrepreneur? What can I start? Not, oh, I'm gonna be an accountant but the accounting pays the bills.

Serena: 2:30

Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. Today I have another guest, and an amazing conversation. I just know it will be with Simone, and I'm gonna let you pronounce your last name, , and introduce yourself.

Simone: 2:44

Awesome. Thank you. I'm so happy just to chat with another c p a and just somebody focused on finances and all that stuff. Um, so my name's Simone, Sam Luca Rasins, c p a, and the, the intros are always so interesting, right? Like you have so much of a life to explain in such a short amount of time. But right now I'm living in port. I am a digital expat, not a digital nomad. Cause I think I found kind of the spot I left the US in 2020 before the pandemic. And before that I, I, you know, spent a big amount of time in Los Angeles. Started my entrepreneurial journey in 2015, uh, in the cannabis industry as an accountant, as a financial c p a. And before that I worked in big four accounting, international consulting. So I've had the opportunity to live and travel in almost every continent, work with a ton of cultures, a ton of business owners, and just a ton of people. And I think I have this global perspective on a lot of things and my through line, I think my through line has always been., even when I was very young. As I'm doing more inner work, I kind of see it has always been trying to get financial equity, independence, whatever you wanna call it, but financial equity for people. And so it's funny how sometimes careers find you, you don't find them. I, I never wanted to be an accountant. It was easy for me. I just went through the path of getting re. Rooted. I always try to stop it and then I feel like sometimes you just need to embrace what you're good at and turn it in a way where you are trying to still have your message. And I find that accounting is that way.

Serena: 4:30

I totally agree. I can completely resonate with that. was not my career path that I had in mind. So out of curiosity, what was, what were you interested in doing or where were you headed before? Accounting just sucked you in

Simone: 4:48

and it's so funny. So journalism, okay. Communications. and marketing. Right. And it's so funny. I feel like now as, as an entrepreneur, as building my business as, as a podcaster and a lot of the stuff that I've done, I feel like now I'm actually learning how to do it. And so it's just interesting how the past, you know, I always think. That we're here because of all the work that we've done. And it's just the path. We just have to be, embrace the path and I can really see it. But that was really what I wanted to do. And I, I do the career test occasionally just to see kind of how I'm doing. Cause our personalities change, like as we get older, life events happen and I've even noticed I'm a big extrovert, but my extroversion, introversion ratio has, has shifted. as I've gotten older. So it's interesting. So I recently did a career test just to be like, am I on, uh, am I on the right track in education, which is what I do. Communication are the big ones. Ironically, business isn't, and I can see that. I can see that though, because what I prefer and how I have shifted my business is in a way to allow me to do the things that I'm really passionate about and really, That's just

Serena: 5:59

fascinating. That is fascinating. Oh, how fun.. I started out in education as well, and now here we are, . Wow. So, yeah. Um, awesome. So how did you end up. Um, I told you before we hit record that I definitely wanted to dive into the cannabis, um, industry situation. How did you end up, uh, serving that industry and did you, like, walk me through that whole process. Did you start out your firm serving that industry, or did you shift to serving that indu industry because you saw the

Simone: 6:36

opportunity? Yeah, I didn't see, I, I saw and didn't see the opportunity, so I had, I was working in, in France and I just, I was doing international consulting, traveling all the time. Hated it. I was like, what am I doing? I'm not even in Paris. This is. This is awful. Quit my job, lose my visa to live there, to, didn't put those two things together or you know, and I, and I moved back to Los Angeles and I was like, well, you know what? I picked up some freelance clients that were my old businesses that I worked with. So very stable, reliable income. But I still felt like it was the same thing, working for a big corporation, putting in my time, clocking in. Clocking in being done with my work, but still feeling like I needed to clock in. And when you move to a new place, I don't know if it still happens, but you can get magazines. And so I got these magazines always delivered. And I don't know if it was people or if it was something of the sort, but I saw this like, oh, women in the marijuana industry, and this is like 2014. Mm-hmm.. And I was like, what? I've lived in, I have lived abroad. Working in public accounting is a big drinking culture. Like I had left the days of my weed smoking in high school because unfortunately, I mean, we'll talk a little bit about this is like there's a big stigma and I still think that stigma exists about can you be smart, can you be productive and still use cannabis? And, and at that time it was weed or marijuana and. I see this magazine, I'm like, Hmm, this is interesting. I knew I wanted to do something on my own and I was like, you know what? I just told myself, and I feel like there's these, sometimes these revelations of like, yes, that is what I'm going to do. And I was like, you know, I'm gonna be in this. Didn't know what it would be. But I just knew. And so from there I started, cuz I'm a former auditor, I started doing interviews. I started, you know, really trying to understand like what were the pain points in the industry. Cause at that point I was like more thinking about like, how can I be an entrepreneur? What can I start? Not, oh, I'm gonna be an accountant but the accounting pays the bills. And so I was like, hmm., you know, what can I do? What can I do? I find a c p a firm. I was like, let me help you with your business strategy and see if I can help you. Like, you know, cuz my background in consulting was working along all different aspects of business, all different processes, so from sales and marketing to just streamlining operations, but for pretty large companies. So I had this, this really nice skillset that wasn't accounting at that. I was like, let me see how I can help you. I think the first rule that now even talking to you, I'm like, you just gotta pitch what you feel confident in. The guy was like, yes, okay. So it was awesome because I got to see the back end of these businesses without having the risk yet of doing anything on my own. Right At that moment, I had created a legal entity just to make sure that I was protecting myself and all of that. But I didn't have, you know, I didn't have a business plan at the moment or anything like,

Serena: 9:33

Just to clarify, you linked up with a c p a firm that was already serving the cannabis industry? Yes.

Simone: 9:39

Okay. Yes, because the best way to understand this industry, and I honestly believe anything that you want to get your hands wet in or you know your feet deep in. Is to work with somebody who's done it. See the books. Mm-hmm., understand the numbers before you do anything because girl it is, and back then it was wild. Yeah. You know, all cash business at 20 14, 20 15. California wasn't even legalized from adult use perspectives. We're talking like four, no, three states that have legalized marijuana, not even called cannabis at the time, and so it's very much wild west and just diving into it by yourself at that moment, I, I couldn't have imagined. I wanted to make sure that a, I would have some, some form of like, income that I didn't really have to worry about, like pitching clients. I didn't know how to do that at the moment. I wanted to just learn. It was perfect. Mm-hmm.. But soon, you know, I think I was there for about maybe seven to eight months and then I was like, this is not for me. I was like this, there's something else. There's something else that I wanna do. But working there was just the best experience that I had because I got to ask all these questions. I got to learn, uh, because there's this crazy, it's not a crazy tax code. It is. Because cannabis is a schedule one or two substance. There's five substance on the controlled substance, uh, list. You can't deduct anything from a federal perspective except cost of good sold except a deduction of to gross receipts, which is cost of good sold. So, you know, there was like all these weird ways back then before the i R S was really doing any of these court cases to like figure out how to kind of maneuver it. A lot of it unfortunately wasn't the right way and those businesses unfortunately had to, you know, Deal with that, but I, it was just too risky to do it on my own. Then I didn't know what I wanted to do. I, I had no idea. And I think that's like entrepreneurship. I mean, I think that's even building a business, even if we just like looked at like the financial business consulting space. I know your, your audience is really big on bookkeeping. Even if you looked at that, and I know you teach this, like there's so many different components of just what. It's business advisory, it's support in taxes, it's profit management. There's so much and so there's no way, and now I've never said this loud cause I never thought about it. There's no way I could have done it on, on my own. I would not have known where to go. I would've figured it out, but I wouldn't have known.

Serena: 12:04

It would've been very stressful.. Yeah. That's so funny. Around that time, maybe a little bit earlier, I was living in San Diego and um, so I was living there when it was medical. Use only. And I had, I was a staff accountant at a large company, but I had already had that inkling of like, I could do this from home. Like, cuz I would work virtually when we traveled and stuff and tap into the network and stuff. And I would be like, why am why am I doing this in an office? Like I could start my own firm and do this on my own. And I, um, I had a group of friends that. You know, medically using marijuana, I guess. And so I was like, I could probably get into that industry. I'm sure they need bookkeepers, but I didn't really delve that far into it because of the same thing as I was like, I wouldn't have any support. Like I came from corporate. I didn't even come from, I mean, I've worked in a c P A firm, um, at the beginning of my career. I like, I just did not have the right experience or really the right connections and stuff, so I kind of was just like, nah, that's, that's not gonna happen.. Yeah. And then I set my little dream on my, on the shelf for a few more years.

Simone: 13:18

without luck. Yeah. But you just had it there, you were looking at it a day and you're like, it is going to happen. Yeah. I mean, I just, I didn't. Honestly, I didn't realize the complexity of it, even getting into it. And it's not even till I just had a call with, you know, um, somebody who's taken some of my courses. They had a, hired a new bookkeeper and we just had another like powwow cause year end's happening. We've talked about their legal structure. I was like, whoa. It's so complicated because cuz it's like there's, there are small businesses and I think back around that time there was a lot more. But unfortunately because of the federal illegality, the cost of compliance, the, honestly a lot of'em, 80% are still all cash and. Just the barriers to entry to even get a license. The playing field has really shifted, so a lot of them are coming with, you know, not venture backed, but definitely a lot of money The legal entity structure, all that is super complicated. So it reminds you of being in like this corporate setting of the complexity of it. It's not small business, but yet they operate like small business. So it's just these layers of, of intricacy that, you know, and the, the people that I love to help are the ones that are in it because of the medicine are in it because they want to, you know, change something because maybe they. You know, been hit by the war on drugs, now have this opportunity to build a business and those are the people that I wanna help. And those are the people that really struggle with the cash flow and don't have those resources. So it's just, it's very interesting and I think that people wanting to get in the space, please. Absolutely. Because people need really good bookkeepers, really good records, and a lot of these businesses aren't prioritizing them cause they're in this like startup and scale up mode at the same.

Serena: 16:12

Yeah. I find that an issue in any industry, honestly. But do you find it difficult to, um, like to sell the importance of it, or do most of them understand because of the regulatory issues that they, they need to keep good records. They just like, aren't there yet? Or like, what, what have you noticed in that?

Simone: 16:34

It depends. So a lot of my work, so pre-education is so important I think in any, in any aspect of like getting a client, but really here for them to understand. So I usually don't work with that many businesses one-on-one. And now the offerings that I do are much more related to business development and sales. So I really, I'll work with C P A companies, help them build out a cannabis department or something along those lines. But the pre-education is really important because they realize it because of the books and records, but I don't think they realize the severity of what would happen if it goes. They're, they're mandated to operate in a seat to sale tracking system. And so by definition, like everything needs to be tracked, updated 24 hours a day. And so with that, I think a lot of them are uneducated. A lot of them meaning business owners are uneducated cuz they think that's the accounting, but they don't realize the other component of it. And I think that they're overwhelmed. And so unless they have somebody that understood. Or the importance of it. Usually it's a c o o or that person that's like, I'm overwhelmed, I need some help. That can be the champion or the advocate, or they have enough money to hire somebody. Then there'll be some priority, but depending on the state, like West Coast states, because it had been operating so much in the Wild West for such a long time, they have this natural tendency to not value the importance of it, generally speaking, versus if you kind of move on east and you think about, you know, a New York or a New Jersey or Massachusetts, well, there wasn't such. They call it legacy, but like, you know, an older market. Mm-hmm.. And so it's easier to adopt that. And then also there's much more funding with that business behind it. So I think people recognize the importance, but if it's a small business and they're really not earning that much revenue, I don't think it's, I think it's harder for them to understand the value. And so that's where it's education or trying to be as smart as you can with it. But if they don't have the good books and records, they can't. Financial positions and then they won't be around for a few years. So it's like, it's, it's

Serena: 18:41

hard when you, it's a catch catch 22 , isn't it? Yeah. We all struggle with like, like I said, that's an issue in any industry, especially with the small guys. A lot of 'em, they're just trying to keep their head above water and pay their bills and they don't really understand that. All this work on the front end could help with those issues later on. But, um, but yeah, and it's a lot of like us having to decide where we draw the line in the sand of who we're gonna help and who we're gonna market to. Yes. And it's like, but I wanna help everyone. And so you sound, it sounds like you've solved that. Like, I wanna help everyone type of situation by, by doing some speaking and stuff Right. Or educating, um, in that industry, have you been doing.

Simone: 19:23

I, I mean I've been doing that from the very get go. So I started my podcast in 2016. I did, I was so, so two 80 is that tax code. And so I did a course in 2017 about it and I forgot I did it and then people got buying it and I was like, oh, I should go back and like updated and all that kind of stuff. And so I was so sick of people not of telling people the same thing on the call itself. Mm-hmm. like, this is what cost of good soul is, this is what you need to do. And I was like, mm, okay. This is a course. And so I definitely. Figured out a way and still learning about trying to not solve problems for everybody. I, I know it, I teach it, but something in the heart's like, but I wanna help everybody. Everybody deserves it. But from a business perspective, that's just, it's, it's just not the way, but from a, from, yeah, from the cannabis industry. When I moved to Europe, I knew, and this was before Covid, but I knew that, I think that there's such an amazing opportunity to be remote. And it was, and this, honestly, it was the truly first time that I was remote. Cause usually I would do to get all of my clients before I moved to Europe, I would do a, I would do an event. I would either be related to financial freedom or a business seminar with other women. It was in Los Angeles. So it was really easy and amazing to create a community and to get the people that I wanted to work with. And they all happened to center around cannabis.. But that changed when Covid happened. And also I had a bit of an identity shift when Covid happened because I moved here and at that moment I was in France and nobody cared about cannabis. Nobody wanted to talk about it. And it was harder for me to figure out those through lines of like, okay, well is this the opportunity for me to build something new? And I, and it is, and, and it took me though, it took me some time to figure it. Luckily I'd built systems and so the work, just what we're talking about at the very beginning, right? The work that I put into the podcast, to the, um, To the course, the seo, all of that allowed me to continue to get clients. I don't, I didn't have to do anything. Mm-hmm.. And so that was nice. It's allowed me, I think like if anybody's thinking about making the transition or even making a transition into another market, you always wanna con, you always wanna care about cash flow and do you have enough money to be able to make that decision so you're not in financial distress? And you know, it was easy to make that transition for me. Employee to, you know, consultant. Uh, and then the second jump where I've really been trying to kind of retrofit and really build an online business, um, I haven't been able to do it fully and so I still have to do consulting. And so it's nice that those, that work that I put in, It's still valuable. A lot of it is, evergreened still continues to help me, you know, build that source of income until I can fully rely on, well, you don't even wanna fully rely on one source of income, but until I can, you know, have more of the, the course not related to cannabis, that type of work come in. So it's, it's been very interesting. I think the big thing I've learned is that, It's good to have a plan, but sometimes the plans can change and your strengths of who you are as a person, how you solve problems, how you communicate, all that stuff. I think that's what gets you through it. Mm-hmm.? Yeah.

Serena: 22:40

Yeah, absolutely. So what is it that you have shifted toward creating or, um, spending more time on now that you had your identity shift during Covid?

Simone: 22:51

Well, so I've been really trying to, it's interesting, so like wrapping up what I have done in cannabis, I'm not done right. I, the podcast still gets more downloads and downloads, so I'm trying to find p other people to do it. So it's very exciting to like empower other people. What I wanted to be on your podcast is that I've talked to, all of a sudden the people that were buying my course are accountants. Mm-hmm. never thought I would ever work with accountants. That has given me so much more light into that this industry, the accounting industry and industry that I actually went to school for, I actually never paid any attention to. And so I'm focused on this. Focus on this on, in a very different way where it comes to much more like financial education, financial education from, you know, we all start our business as the definition of, of an entrepreneur to realize a profit. We start our businesses to have a freedom of wealth, a freedom of time, of location, all of those things. And so, you know, if you don't have your personal finances in check, how do you have your business finances in check? So I'm slowly tweaking it to really start at the very beginning and really focused on the personal finance. Cause something I never, I was always able to get by with very quickly. Like it, I never struggled with it, so I never saw it as a pain point. And, and then it's the business finance. So really I'm not shifting too much in terms of how I'm helping, it's just who I'm.. Okay. Fun. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome, awesome. It's so interesting, I, for you, how, how about you, like when it, when you made that transition to know that you wanted to help people start their bookkeeping company, you know, how did you know that that was the way? Well,

Serena: 24:35

it was kind of early on in my business and I felt a little bit like an imposter because I was, I've only been in business for like a year and a half, two years, and I, , I had been starting to , help people in Facebook groups and, and things cuz they would have the same questions that I, I had at the beginning, but I had solved it. Mm-hmm. and so I was just kind of helping people out and then I realized like, I'm re with you, same thing. I'm repeating the same thing over and over again. So I decided to create a blog so I could at least direct people to the blog. So I don't have to retype the same message every time., . Yes. And then I created like a little downloadable P D F so that people could just like pop in their email address and get it delivered to their inbox. And it was like a whole checklist for starting their business. And. Um, and I like, at first I felt a little bit imposter because I had just started my business, but I had all this like corporate and small business background under my belt, and that's what enabled me to ramp up my business quickly without making too many mistakes. you know what I mean? Mm-hmm.. But there were still those, those questions in that gap in the marketplace where it was like, for me, There was already a lot of courses out there teaching people to learn how to do bookkeeping and create a business. Mm-hmm., I already knew the accounting and the bookkeeping. I did not need that level of support. I just wanted to make sure that I was setting up my business correctly, having the right processes. Mm-hmm., learning how to get clients and all that kind of stuff, and. That's where I was like, well, I can fill this need because I'm sure there's other accountants that want to leave corporate and start their own thing and nobody wants to spend that much money on a course if half of it is teaching the accounting fundamentals Right, exactly. So, um, yes, that's kind of how I figured that out and I. I let go of the imposter syndrome feeling when I was like, well, you know what? I'm closer to having just started my business. Like I'm closer to where they're at than someone who's been in business for 20 years trying to teach this. So maybe I haven't Edge just like gave myself excuses. Yes. But yeah.

Simone: 26:44

Yeah, yeah. No, but it's so true. And I think just to touch on like the work that you're doing and like my. My thought about like, there's so much power here because I think the accounting industry as a whole is really shifting from the type of like firm C P A work and there's so much succession that's going to happen. I just feel like there's this opportunity to really allow and. Put in a new way of doing things, especially like with a great resignation, and I'm sure you see it a lot more. All these people are trying to start these accounting businesses and thinking about the way that we learned it and then just thinking about that in terms of, okay, business finance, and then I'm just, cause I am, I've been so obsessed with personal finance lately, so then like with personal finances, like what we've been told maybe isn't the way of doing things. And so I just think that's a massive opportunity as people are really saying, you know, I do think I have the power because if you can get, I mean, if more and more people continue to leave corporate, have these corporate backed experiences., I just see that the whole landscape is going to shift. What do you think?

Serena: 27:53

Yeah, I totally agree, and I think that more of us that have come from corporate are gonna come and run our quote unquote accounting firms. Mm-hmm., um, more like a business. And you're starting to see that with the younger CPAs that are coming out and starting their own firms or taking over older firms and kind of revamping them to, to run more like a business instead of like the firm partner structure, right? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Simone: 28:24

It's so, it's so cool. It is

Serena: 28:26

so very cool. It is really cool. The other thing too that I noticed when I started out is I, I had, um, like I said at the very beginning, Towards the beginning of my career, I worked at a small c p a firm. It was mainly a tax practice, but we also did, um, a little bit of client accounting services. And they were actually like way ahead of the game on adopting like a paperless office . Cause that was like, I think that was like back in 2010, 2011 when I worked there. And they were already completely paperless. and I look back now and I'm like, wow. They were really ahead of the curve. Like even though he was an older firm owner, like, and he was close to retiring at that point. He knew he saw the future of it and he wanted to set up his successor for, with, for success or whatever, right? Yes. Like the girl that took over the firm, she was set up, um, with a paperless office. Like she didn't have to, you know, All this, this archaic system. However, like there's still so much more technology now available that really enables, even though they were, they had adopted the paperless office, they were still using like a huge, you know, the huge CS suite that's very expensive, um mm-hmm. and things like that. Whereas like, I, it's definitely like the barriers to entry in that regard are much lower for us starting our firms. Cause we can adopt software that's,, you know, you pay for, uh, a user at a time or whatever instead of buying like a $3,000 office suite. Um Exactly.

Simone: 30:04

It just heats that cash flow.

Serena: 30:06

Yeah. Yeah. So that's exciting as well. And there's so many. Yeah. Back then QuickBooks Online was pretty new and we had one client that used it and it was horrible., the rest of our clients. The rest of our clients we had on Peachtree, and we would go physically to. Um, to their office, create a backup and bring it back to our office to do the bookkeeping.

Simone: 30:31

Yeah. Wow. It's just the time. Yeah. Just the sheer amount of time. What is the most, like where do you think the biggest pain point right now still is in the accounting space? Like, I mean, maybe it's technology, maybe it's. Something else, but like, what

Serena: 30:45

is it? I think it probably depends on who you talk to, but, um mm-hmm. I think a big pain point is like what you said is the succession of, like, I keep hearing this stat thrown out there and I don't know how accurate it is, so I should probably like fact check it, but something like 75% of, um, firm owners are retiring right now, like in the next few years. Right. So it's like there's a huge opportunity for. Our generation of accountants to come in and kind of revamp the way things have been done. Start your own firm, maybe acquire another one, a book of business and kind of, um, I don't know. Have you, do you have thoughts on that? Like I've, I talked to that's,

Simone: 31:28

Yes. I mean it's interesting because I, well, I saw like the summer you were at, was it the SAGE conference or something? I, what was the accounting conference that you were at? Was it hosted by Sage or Zero

Serena: 31:40

Con? Yeah, it was hosted by Zero Zero

Simone: 31:42

Con and I was like, oh God. I was like, I think that, and then just talking to some other accountants in this space. Cause I literally, I feel like. I love what you're com, what you're building or what you've built already, because it allows people that are like-minded to also have conversations. Because that is the one thing that in my career, I never really talked to anybody that does the same thing. It's always supporting clients. Mm-hmm. or asking somebody about sales and marketing really. And so I, I love that. I was talking to a bookkeeper, I think, or an accountant around that time about that, and I was like, wow. I was like, why haven't I even been paying attention to the industry that I actually know the most about? I don't know these pain points, but I think it was around that time that also I had heard a very similar statistic. So I'm gonna say, well, let's go with that, and if that's the case, they're so much that can change because if you think about who those businesses are serving, Because my other through line is like financial, like equity for women and people of color. Right? And so if you think about some of the statistics for women entrepreneurs, actually, I'm curious if you have this statistic. I, the la the only statistic I could find, and this is now outdated, is about 14% of women entrepreneurs earn six figures or more., which is insane to me and that the average entrepreneurial salary is about 60,000, which is also insane to me cuz you're trying to start it. But the average American salary. If you're not an entrepreneur or self-employed to 74,000. Wow. So, yeah. So that's a big Wow. So I'm gonna paint this picture and then we maybe could talk about it because, so if the dynamic really is shifting and you think about, well, who is owning all of those CPA firms? Well, traditionally it's not the people that I'm wanting to, and so if. more people that are understanding accounting and finance and kind of a new way of thinking could take over that and help different businesses. I feel like, you know, why do businesses go out of business? Well, there's not a market fit, but also the second reason is they run out of cash cashflow problems. Well, accountants are supposed to help that. So I just see that there's massive opportunity. But what I don't know, cause now I'm remote and this is a new, very big interest of mine, but I can't do the same auditing that I did back when I was getting into cannabis. was, what are the through lines between all of these different people that are interested? Of course, we're CPAs, A I C P A, but that's kind of old, outdated. Is it joining a group like ambitious bookkeepers? Like is there something to help, you know, obviously I was thinking about standards, but not even thinking about standards. Just community even. Yeah, and so I just feel like I'm curious. I'm sure there's a lot of resources out there, but it's just, it's a massive opportunity. I am curious how, instead of operating in silos, cause that ha that happened a lot in the cannabis industry, they'd be like, great idea. Okay, I'm gonna start it. Oh, another great idea and a different say. I'm gonna start it. But like, how are all of these new generations of bookkeepers and accountants and CPAs coming together in a, in a way that's meaningful to impact that industry?

Serena: 34:45

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I think, um, there's definitely a handful of really good communities out there of awesome like-minded people like us, um, that are not . Like a lot of us are redirecting our dollars. Like I used to be a member of the A I C P A and I am no longer because I didn't find value in it. And I would rather redirect those dollars to be a part of a different mastermind or a different community of people who, who look. like me, are around my age, have the same goals and aspirations as I do. They're not about to retire. You know what I mean?, . So maybe other moms in business. So I have, you know what I mean? Like we, we all get to make our own decision with our dollars and where we spend them. Just because like, yeah, it would be great to create our own like, Licensing, whatever, um, or membership or whatever. But, um, but yeah, like that's part of why. I, I love what, there's others in our industry and a lot of them are podcasters too. So I think that's a great, okay. A great way to like, make those connections with others that are trying to change the industry, um, is to connect with other quote unquote thought leaders in the industry. But mm-hmm., um, one of the others in our industry who is making big changes is, uh, one of the co-hosts of the Cloud Accounting podcast, and he's created Earmark cpe, which is. An app on your phone, but you can get CPE for listening to accounting related podcasts. So we have started uploading our podcast, our longer ones that are around an hour so that you can get an hour of C p E to earmark. And it's like, don't let the bookkeeper title fool you like I'm A C P A. I do have like highly valuable conversations with my guests and solo episodes. So it's like, um, yeah, any way that we can do things like that to. To just change the industry. Like we don't need to be sitting at a, a really boring conference to learn how to run our businesses. Yes. And how to serve clients better.. Simone: Oh my God. I just think about those old c p E credits I had in public accounting. It was the worst. And I think that, yeah, I can't wait to check out that podcast because that's the thing is like, sometimes you just have to be in a different space to even think about what is, is. Could benefit the future of our industry. Right? Like, it's like you almost have to be in a different consciousness to solve a different problem. And so, yeah, I, I can't wait to dive in. And also just having these conversations, because the reason why I pointed out is like, I wonder when you had to go get those Petri things, nobody fought. I mean, I'm sure people who had to do it were like, oh God, this is annoying. But like, why were, why weren't people like, oh, let's get. Let's get on, you know, QuickBooks online. It's complacency. It's like comfort, complacency. And so I think that this is such a massive opportunity. I'm sure everybody that's listening to your podcast is aligned with that because they're entre, they're entrepreneurs and bookkeepers. So yeah, very, very cool. And also you hold a lot of responsibility because. Yeah. You know, you are, you are the entryway into the industry. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that's, that's one way that I, I think is a really, like anyone who's listening, who wants to create change in our industry, like link up with other podcasters, create your own podcast, create a community, do whatever you can get involved, go to the events and all that kind of stuff. Um, It's really important. Or even like, even if you just have your own tiny little community, your own little mastermind. Yes. Um, just don't, yeah, don't be siloed. That's like. It's crazy because then you, when you do finally like, link up with someone else in the industry, you, you'll, you'll probably find out that they're, they're trying to create the exact same thing you are or do something very similar. And if you joined forces, it would just, it would just be so much easier and bigger and better. Simone: So yes, totally.. I completely agree. Before we wrap up, um, I did wanna talk about, earlier on in the interview, you had talked about being a freelancer in one of your, like early on consulting and then you kind of shifted to consulting mm-hmm. And that's one of the things that, um, . I think a lot of us, especially if you are, you know, creating your business as a side hustle and you're still in corporate, you might kind of view yourself as a freelancer. And that's one of the areas where like when I first started my business, I was basically just freelancing and the dynamic is very different from coming in as a consultant. So, um, can you talk about how. Made that shift or maybe made the realization that , maybe I shouldn't be a freelancer, I should be more of a consultant.. Simone: Yeah. Well it's funny cause I actually like, I use those almost synonymously, but I, I think that subconsciously I did make that differentiation. When the services that I would always provide, always added, like even with the CPA company, it would be, you know, I did business advisory stuff, so I helped 'em identify new revenue streams, all of that. And then when I started going out on my own, I, I, I noticed pretty quick that I like, I don't love to do the detail work, like I like to get it done, you know, value add, all that kind of stuff. So everybody needed financial projections at that time. So basically, I think it was much more of cons, consult. I don't know, actually you've gotta tell me if it was more consulting or freelancing, cuz I'll tell you now what I do, but. Back then, I was like, okay, people need financials. Like I didn't do, I didn't touch books, I didn't do anything like that. All I would do was create financials and I was just like, oh, it was like a financial performance shop. And then if people wanted to talk about business strategy, they would talk about business strategy. But why I called it, I think freelancing or consulting is that. I didn't outsource that to anybody, like it was just me. And so my time was, was spent doing that. I try, I did try to outsource it a few times for the financial projections. I just couldn't do it as fast as me, which is not, that's exactly what I wouldn't tell you. You want to train somebody, you take the time to do it. But at that moment of my life, impatient in LA wanting to hang out with my. I decided to do that. I wasn't building a business that was building kind of a freelancing. Exactly. That's, so that's, that's how I would define it. So it had always been that way. Then, you know, coming, so that's like 20 18, 20 19, you know, I really love sales and marketing and all of that. And so now if I take on clients that relate to business growth, I will outsource some of the. But very small. And I'll still be doing the consulting. I had a client that's a big client of mine, um, come to me that needed complete like accounting work, um, like cleanup, bookkeeper, wrecked everything, non-cannabis. And so my whole pitch, and I feel like this is a really good strategy if you do clean up accounting was, okay, I'm gonna do the books. I'm gonna clean it up. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hire a bookkeeper. Um, that's not part of my monthly. and I'm gonna make sure that cuz the bookkeeper route, the chart of counts. Like everything. I'm gonna make sure that it's all good. We'll have all s with your third parties. That was a three month contract. Um, pretty nice gig and not a lot of time, but a lot of value. So I could charge a really, a good amount. Um, they still have the bookkeeper. I switched it and then I started doing more of operational stuff, but it got too, too much into the weeds. They wanted, you know, me on Slack. I had to respo. I felt like it, like, so I said, no, that's not, that's not gonna be for me. What I can do is this. So set, setting those boundaries. So, Um, monthly reviews. I look at cash flow, make sure invoicing is happening. So basically I just manage the bookkeeper and now I'm rolling off of that because it's, that's still a little too intensive for where I wanna go. So I would say that, you know, I've, because I was a cons, I was public accounting and then I was con, you know, internal audit, and then I did consulting in corporate. And so I think I do use those interchangeably, I'd say. On my team now I have like two to three freelancers that I'll work with that I'll say, Hey, you know, we're doing this project, can you help me? But I'll, I'll most of the client facing stuff I do, um, with some of the sales and marketing, I'll bring in my assistant who I'll like talk to like clients a little bit about, just like some of the more app admin stuff. So it's interesting because how do you define freelancing as like, you know, kind of, how do you define the difference between freelancing and consult? I would say, , like for just my own interpretation? Yes. When, when you present yourself as a freelancer, it's almost like you're going to take an internal role, but they're paying you as a contractor, so you basically have to adopt whatever the client needs, right? You don't get to dictate your tech stack, your scope, really. It's really like they're paying for you to sit. In an internal seat or an internal role in the company. Okay. And like you said, like they might want you on their Slack channel, they might want you to have an internal email address. They might. And those are the things that when you. Work as a freelancer. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but cuz I think we all kind of start out there. especially. Yeah. As, um, corporate accountants, like we never learned sales, so we are not going to have those skills to really create that, those boundaries initially. And it's more about gaining the experience and learning how to serve the small business. And so if that's what is necessary at the beginning, that is totally okay. That's where I started too.? Um, yeah.

Simone: 44:23

I think that I've never been a freelancer then. I think I've always been a consultant, but I never treated the consulting aspect of trying to build a consulting business like beside until or recently. But even then it's, you know, it's the high hopes of that. It's much more, I'm really trying to get towards this educational online school than the consulting business. So it's almost been like, I'll. I'll build it for the income that I want, but not to build an accounting firm or you know, or a consulting firm. Right. I originally wanted to do that, but it definitely shifted with, I think with just life and priorities, and now with, with living here and all of that, it, I just, it, it has shifted a bit.

Serena: 45:06

Yeah, I would say cons, like being a consultant is pretty much like the next level of like, you are able to have those kind of sales conversations, create more scope, create more boundaries, um, and. and really be viewed as the expert rather than you're just kind of filling in an internal role, , that outside expert advice. But yeah, it can be very difficult to create a consulting firm, especially if you're the one with the expertise that people are going to pay for as a consultant. Exactly.. Simone: And I feel like the way you build it around a process. Yeah. So that you always know, it's like you're a methodology or whatever, and then you would train people on the process because that is kind of the direction where I do wanna go. And I have been thinking about it. I'm like, okay, but how do you actually find the people that you really want? And I was like, well, at least I have, you know, some source from the people who have taken my courses and all that's all that. But yeah, I think it's. Building team is so important. Training people is, is critical and it's a reflection of your brand. And so if, if someone is trying to decide to do a consulting company or even, I mean, or a bookkeeping company, it's just, I think it's making sure you have a very defined process so you can really train people on it and know what your expectations are for. And what you're willing to allow because it's like you can go, what's the saying? Like you can go very fast alone, but you can go far with a, with a team. It all depends on your goals. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I, really appreciate it. This was a great conversation. So can you share where people should connect with you if they're a bookkeeper or accountant interested in serving a cannabis industry, or, anything else that you have to offer our audience that you want

Simone: 47:00

to talk about? Yes, definitely. Thank you. Um, check out the podcast. It's cannabis business minds.com. I'm gonna have to get you on it. Um, there's a website with blog posts and all that. And then if you're interested in connecting with me and finding out some of my courses, check out www.simonecr.com and you can connect with me there. And then I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram. Not so much, but much more on LinkedIn. Wonderful. Um, be happy. Yeah.

Serena: 47:31

Thank you again. Thank you. All right. We'll talk to you soon.