In this interview with Ben Day, the CEO of Lionshare Bookkeeping and founder of Built By Bookkeepers, we have an incredible conversation about how he grew his firm in the last 5 years and what he has going on now.
In this episode you’ll hear:
About Ben:
Ben started Lionshare Bookkeeping in 2017 shortly after graduating college. With a job as a bartender and a bachelor's degree in music, Ben decided to try and make a little extra money bookkeeping on the side. 5 years later, Lionshare Bookkeeping serves over 100 real estate investment businesses across the country, providing bookkeeping services to landlords, house-flippers, fund managers, and any business where real estate is managed. Ben also works as an interim CFO to select clients, and as a coach to other bookkeeping professionals through his Built By Bookkeepers program.
Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories and tag me & Ben, @ambitiousbookkeeper
For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:
Visit our website: ambitiousbookkeeper.com
Follow the Blog: ambitiousbookkeeper.com/blog
Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/ambitiousbookkeeper
Connect on LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/SerenaShoup
Connect of Facebook: Facebook.com/serenashoupcpa
Thank you for your support of our show. If you haven’t left a review yet it’s super simple. Please go to: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/podcast and leave your review.
In this interview with Ben Day, the CEO of Lionshare Bookkeeping and founder of Built By Bookkeepers, we have an incredible conversation about how he grew his firm in the last 5 years and what he has going on now.
In this episode you’ll hear:
About Ben:
Ben started Lionshare Bookkeeping in 2017 shortly after graduating college. With a job as a bartender and a bachelor's degree in music, Ben decided to try and make a little extra money bookkeeping on the side. 5 years later, Lionshare Bookkeeping serves over 100 real estate investment businesses across the country, providing bookkeeping services to landlords, house-flippers, fund managers, and any business where real estate is managed. Ben also works as an interim CFO to select clients, and as a coach to other bookkeeping professionals through his Built By Bookkeepers program.
Thanks for listening. If this episode inspired you in some way, take a screenshot of you listening on your device and post it to your Instagram Stories and tag me & Ben, @ambitiousbookkeeper
For more information about the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast or interest in our programs or mentoring visit our resources below:
Visit our website: ambitiousbookkeeper.com
Follow the Blog: ambitiousbookkeeper.com/blog
Connect on Instagram: instagram.com/ambitiousbookkeeper
Connect on LinkedIn: Linkedin.com/in/SerenaShoup
Connect of Facebook: Facebook.com/serenashoupcpa
Thank you for your support of our show. If you haven’t left a review yet it’s super simple. Please go to: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/podcast and leave your review.
[00:00:00] There is one single. Extremely powerful question that you can ask yourself. When you are faced with. A big decision. Problem to solve. Or trying to figure out a strategy. And i'm going to share it today with you in this interview episode with Ben Day
[00:00:20] So without further ado, let me introduce Ben for you. And we will jump right into the interview. Ben started lionshare bookkeeping in 2017, shortly after graduating college with a job as a bartender and a bachelor's degree in music. Ben decided to try and make a little extra money bookkeeping on the side. I actually didn't even realize he was in music. We totally should have talked about this. Definitely need to have him back on the podcast. Anyhoo, five years later, Lionshare bookkeeping serves over 100 real estate investment businesses across the country, providing bookkeeping services to landlords house flippers fund managers, and any business where real estate is managed. Ben also works as an interim CFO to select clients and as a coach to other bookkeeping professionals, through his Built by Bookkeepers program. All right. Let's get into today's episode.
[00:01:11]
[00:01:40] Serena: Hey, Ben, welcome to the ambitious bookkeeper podcast. I'm super excited to have you on here. I first was introduced to you last year at BK X, which I will not be there in person this year, but I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our podcast listeners.
[00:01:58] Ben: Well first I'm going to be very disappointed that you're not going to be at BKX because it's an absolute hoot. Everybody should go. It's a great time. But yeah, so yes, my name is Ben I'm Ben day, and I do whatever I want all the time, basically. In 2017, I started Lionshare Bookkeeping with the help of the folks over at Bookkeeper Launch and Bookkeepers.com. Sponsors of BK acts, right. Which is the digital bookkeeper associations main event. So I started that business in 2017. lion share Book keeping today has just under 20 team members. We work exclusively with real estate investors and we only do bookkeeping. I'm not a CPA, we don't do payroll taxes, we don't do anything that even sounds like taxes. We really focused on the bookkeeping. I've had just a ton of cool experiences living and working through that. I got to be a CFO for a really big real estate firm earlier this year. We've got a couple other businesses that we run on the side using our bookkeeping knowledge. And very recently I started a built by bookkeepers, which is a coaching program kinda to help bookkeepers that really don't know what's next in their bookkeeping business find that community really begin to level themselves. And grow their business and what they really want instead of just plunking around and QuickBooks all day.
[00:03:09] Serena: Awesome. So we're definitely gonna dive into what Built by Bookkeepers is and who is who it's for, but I first, like I told you, before we hit record, I was like, I would just ask people to introduce themselves and I usually have questions.
[00:03:24] Ben: Bring it let's go.
[00:03:27] Serena: It's like the best way to start off an interview. Like I honestly, I probably shouldn't say this out loud to people, but I hardly ever prepare for these interviews because first of all, I'm the type that like will over-prepare and get nervous. So I purposely am just like, I'm just going to jump in. We're just going to see where the conversation goes, but it turns out our listeners really like just being able to like, be a fly on the wall and hear conversations. So it works out. So my question for you is number one, are you speaking again at B K X?
[00:03:56] Ben: Yes I am. Absolutely. They can't get rid of me.
[00:04:00] Serena: Awesome. And number two, you said at Lion share Bookkeeping, you have a team of 20 people and you only started it in 2017. So can you walk us through how that transpired, like how did you grow so fast and all that good stuff?
[00:04:15] Ben: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, and this is all really kinda married into our process a little bit. So I am I will be 29 and two weeks. Right. And so I just don't have a whole lot when I first started my business, really the better story. When I first started my business, I would tell people that the closest thing I had to like any understanding of how work benefits worked or corporate culture was, if you get enough people to sign up for the rewards program, you get a free meal at the end of your shift. Like that was the closest thing I've had to a real job was waiting tables and, and, and, you know, living that college lifestyle. And so I really didn't feel like I had a lot of business experience, corporate experience, accounting experience, anything like I have a music degree, like I'd like abs like nothing.
[00:05:02] And so I got interested in starting a bookkeeping business, started it really leaned into solving problems for folks and doing the marketing, and I got up to maybe where I had like 20 clients on my own at one time. And then I got hooked up with a mentor who I was talking to, I was like, what should I do? And he's like, dude, you should have hired like yesterday, you should have hired like six months ago. What are you doing?
[00:05:24] And at the time I'd really decided. You know, I was feeling some fear, and some anxiety about, I don't know how to hire people. I don't know what this looks like for me. I don't have any grid for the skillset. When I interviewed team members today, I tell them I'm probably the worst interview you'll ever have because I do my best. Like the energy I've got right now is the energy I bring to all things, client calls, interviews the whole bit. And so how we kind of crossed the threshold to 20 team members is I decided pretty early that we were going to work a lot with subcontractors and I was going to over hire subcontractors. Every time. So at the time I had 20 clients that I needed to get handled, I think there may be two that I couldn't hand off directly. The other 18 I split up amongst like six contractors that each had three clients and I more or less immediately put myself in a, okay, here's how we hire. And here's the system and I'm gonna hire in bulk. I'm gonna make sure that I've got the system to where all of these different people. All these different backgrounds can begin to learn. And we're just going to put on a ton of subcontractors and see what sticks and learn the lesson really fast.
[00:06:26] I've been blessed in that I've hired bookkeepers. A lot of training and experience and know how. And they were running their own businesses. And so they all kind of got it. They didn't need a whole lot of hand-holding. And sometimes they did. We had, we have tons of processes and work papers and all that behind the scenes, but scaling the team that fast. Honestly, like I have too many team members right now, but I love all of them and they do a great job and they're all in the right seats and they all like what they do. So I'm not going to get rid of any of them. But for me adding that team was almost a necessity. I was looking at where I wanted my business to be at. I was like, I have to learn this skill, and I do not have the time to figure this out one hire at a time. So let's do like half a dozen at a time, and then people leave or you gotta I've let maybe a couple of people go. People leave, people come back, you hire them on as employees at some point, there's a whole kind of rhythm to what we do there, but it was really kind of a fear thing for me that I wanted to overcome, which was just to hire a ton of people until I get good at this. That's where that 20 comes from. It has nothing to do with the scale and the size and everything to do with really the fear. I bet I could run this with half that team right now.
[00:07:32] Serena: Hmm. Interesting. Awesome. That's it's, it's really cool to hear different avenues to get where you want to go. And I hope that people understand like, You shouldn't really worry about how you're going to get where you want to go at the beginning because the plan will reveal itself or, you know, it internally and for you, your way was through contractors. For some of us, it's going to be like hiring W2 employees or whatever. Yeah. You know, for some of us it's going to be slower growth for some of us, it's going to be like massive blowing up overnight type of growth. Like there's all different ways to get there.
[00:08:12] Ben: You really kind of hit the nail on the head where it's like, it's really, there's a million different ways to get there and what works for me. By definition doesn't work for everybody. Right. I don't, I live in a state where they don't really care if I use subcontractors. Not everybody gets that luxury. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Any anywhere that's fun to live typically. They're like, yeah, we like taking care of our employees too, so don't abuse them, which is great, and I'm all about that. I take great to hear my team, but the flexibility is definitely a really big thing. Yeah. Again, just kind of like, I knew what my vision was and I knew what my parameters were. And I was like, what if, like, what if this were something that I picked up from from a real estate guy that I know he likes to ask this question all the time. Whenever you're thinking about problems and the question he asked himself is what if this were easy? Like, what would this look like if this were just easy? And for me, it was like, what if hiring were easy? I can just post an ad and I'd have a ton of people come work for me and maybe they're not all great fits, but a couple of them will be, and I've got the flexibility to bring those people on and let the old people go, and it doesn't hurt me. And that's, that's the system that I wanted to build. And so I, I dare say, I think I'm very close to finishing that hiring system out for me. And I love it. It's a huge weight off my shoulders.
[00:09:27] Serena: Yeah, I want to go back to what you said about like, what if it were easy? I've done like journaling exercises with this too, where it's like, when I'm up against, like, I need to figure out a plan. I have a vision. And a lot of times, if you do just sit with yourself and ask yourself that question, like, what if it were easy? What would I do? Or what if I already knew all the answers, how would I get there? And then all of a sudden, you know, how to get there.
[00:09:52] Ben: Exactly. I love it. My best example for this cause like, because this is like, This is what I would consider, like CEO level thinking. This is like this whole, like, what if it were easy kind of your, your brain dump exercise where it's like, okay, I know I don't have the answer, but if I did, what would it be? And now you just suddenly like magically have it. I love this. So many folks get stuck on this. They think it's like weird, like, woo, woo magic. Right? That's absolute. Like they're like, how do you, oh, you just must be naturally gifted. No, no, no. Every bookkeeper does this. If you're a solid. Bookkeeping professional. You do this every day. This is how we train our bookkeepers, especially we want them to become like quality control level instead of just data entry level.
[00:10:33] We'll sit down and I'll say, okay, so you coded like 800 transactions this week and you reconciled all these accounts and he did all these journal entries and that's all great. Let's take a second and just go look at a balance sheet. Let's just go look at it. What's there? And let's read through this a little bit and let's take a big step. I don't care about the transactions that are in there at all. I don't care about the trees. I care about the forest. What does this look like? Oh, well, you know, we've got negative assets right now. That's not great, but what does that mean? What should that probably be? And you, and as you begin to kind of just apply some of that thinking about the forest and not the trees mentality, now suddenly it's like, oh, well I could jump through a billion hoops or we could just make this adjustment right here and this is solved. And because I know how difficult this could be, but this is the easiest answer. Right.
[00:11:23] And so anybody that's really stuck on that, like a CEO bit of like, oh, I don't know what to do next. It's like every time to just take a step back, look for the big red numbers on your balance sheet. Like look for the things that are blatantly wrong and say, what, what should that be? What's the easiest way for me to make it like that. And is that going to really hurt anything? And that has saved me. So much brain damage and bookkeeping, for sure. But also in like just designing the business, it's like, what do I want? Let's just go do that. So I'm all about that. Like, what if it were easy is like, I'm going to get it tattooed on my forehead at some point, I'm sure. Like saved my bacon more times than not.
[00:11:59] Serena: It's bringing it back to like what you said about people thinking it's woo or whatever. It's not like we all really have the answers within us. Like, you know what you want to do. If you listened to yourself, like if you're just going, going, going, you're always really busy and you never have time to stop and sit and think about what it is you actually want. You're just going to veer off into having 120 clients that each pay you a hundred dollars.
[00:12:26] Ben: Oh, mercy. Yeah. Yeah. So this is actually, so the process that we're talking about is what my, one of my mentors refers to as a brain dump. Which is actually what I am talking about at Bax in two weeks is, is is the kind of the magic of the brain dump and all this things. But yeah, legitimately, what question are you trying to get solved? Ask yourself, and then physically give yourself the space, and your brain will give you the answer. Our brains are wild. We like, you know, there's this whole like limitless nonsense, like you only use 2% of your brain and that's not true. But we do process a ton more information than we think that we do. And if we would just give ourselves permission to find the answer, it'll be there.
[00:13:08] Serena: A really good, tangible example that I, I think this might bring this into like reality for some people is like, for example, if you are trying to reconcile a bank account or whatever, and it's off by like 3 cents or whatever, you're stressing over $3, whatever. You're spending two hours drilling through each transaction, trying to figure out what it is. And then you're like, okay, I just give up, I'm going to bed. You wake up in the middle of the night or in the morning, and all of a sudden you just know exactly what's transactions was the culprit. Has that happened to you?
[00:13:45] Ben: Yes. Yes. Yeah. You wake up, you're like, oh, wait a minute. I should've clicked this one button right here to like refilter the things. Oh, there it is right there in the middle of my page.
[00:13:55] Serena: Something like that. And you don't even know why you all of a sudden have the answer, but it's like, you walked away, you gave yourself space, and then all of a sudden, there you go.
[00:14:06] Ben: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's like, maybe you do this too, where it's like, I'll wake up in the morning and I've got like a sales call or I've got to put a proposal together. I've got like a really nasty client call. All of my work right now is calls obviously. So like, that's all I've got, but I've got like one big, hairy thing that I got to do early in the day and I'll get that thing done. And then I could feel how hot my brain is. Like I've, overclocked my like, processing. And I'm like, I can't do it. Like I can't, I can't do anything else today. I should, there's things that I need to do, but I need to go to the park. Like I need to step away from this. I need to go like, you know, have a latte or whatever. Like I need to reset and get some space from this that I can begin to really think with the full capacity that I have again. And it's so good for you. We just don't do that enough. We're so bred to be kind of like, like worker bees and it's like, nah, man, you're running a business. You got to take care of yourself. And sometimes that means stepping away for a ton of time after you solve a really big problem, it's part of the perks.
[00:15:04] Serena: Yeah. Or your S you know, strategizing for your next six months or whatever. Yeah. It takes a lot of brain power and I don't think people realize how much it takes, but I'm like, oh, I can't handle it. I'm working more than five hours a day.
[00:15:19] Ben: Oh, dude. Don't even, don't even get me started. But now you have got me started. So we'll talk about it. Originally, like I remember a few years ago when it was still just me. Nope. That's a lie. This was right after I hired all six of those contractors. Right. So I was working 20 clients through tax season, getting everybody done, hired all of these people. I don't have enough processes. I don't have a workflow system. So I was working like 16 hour days through the summer. Like I would wake up drive to my little offsite office with the sun. Work all day, go home, eat dinner, go back to the office, work more. And I remember the grind of that. And at one point I stopped myself and I was like, I hate this. Like everybody jokes. Like, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I work half days and I get to choose which 12. And it's like, yeah, you work all the time. When you run a business, like it's hard to turn that piece off. But you do it to yourself.
[00:16:13] And so I kinda caught myself to like the middle of a hundred hour week that I had scheduled for myself. And I was like, again, kind of like, what if this were easy? Like what kind of business do I want to run? And I was like, okay, I kind of want to run a business where I only work maybe 30 hours. And how do I make that a reality for me? And the weirdest thing happened was when I wanted it to be a reality for me, the first thing I did was made it a reality for my team. And as soon as I started hiring employees and said, Hey, listen, come work for Lion share. We only work 30 hours a week, and it's wildly flexible. I need you in the office nine to five for maybe three hours a week, the other 27 are totally up to you. And as long as you get your work done, I don't care where you're at. You could show up and find me or whatever. As soon as I started building my business for my team. And the same way that I wish I had built my business for me, I more or less unlocked that reality for myself by proxy. And it was just really, really powerful for me and my team loves it and I think it's great for our culture and all of that.
[00:17:16] But you can change pretty much anything with that. What if this were easy question? Absolutely. Like you can't change my mind on that. And then you get to give really healthy things to your team as well. And I'm just wild about it, dude. I love it so much.
[00:17:32] Serena: That's awesome. Well, I'm definitely going to be tuning into your talk virtually for BKX then. I remember last year you talked on, I'm going to be really honest. Your speech and Alyssa's were the only ones that I actually made it to.
[00:17:49] Ben: That's fair. That's fair.
[00:17:50] Serena: But I made it to your speech, and you were talking about communication with clients, I believe. And I had a whole page of notes that I brought back to my team. Cause like I'm still. Even though I'm a mentor in this space, like I'm still a student. Like I will forever, still be a student too. And I think that's also a really important mindset to have along with the CEO mindset. You still have to constantly be willing to grow and be the student, but it was an amazing, incredible speech. So I'm hoping this is stuff that you're sharing inside of your Built by Bookkeepers
[00:18:29] Ben: Dude. Yes. Yes. So I think my talk last year was titled how to get everything you want from your clients every time. And like three minutes in, I was like, by the way, you can't. So that's it and that's, and that's true. Right, right. You're just not.
[00:18:43] Serena: And you have to be okay with that.
[00:18:44] Ben: Yeah. And you have to be very okay with it and build a very flexible communication, a very flexible and accountable communication structure to really facilitate those folks. If that's what you want to do. And I love that. I practiced that intensely, our newest hire. She started yesterday. That's all that she is. She's kind of the go between, between our bookkeeping team and our clients, because she's got mad customer service skills, and that's just what she'll do.
[00:19:07] So I love that, but absolutely this idea of like, it really doesn't matter how much, you know, you should still be a student is just so important. And I'm absolutely stealing this from somebody and I wish I knew who it was, but there's this idea that if you really want to grow in any way, you need three kinds of people around you, right? You need a community, as many people, as you could find around you that are basically on your level. So you can support each other. You can have that comradery you can talk about, oh man, hiring's the worst or I really hate push-ups and I don't like my diet or man, I'm really trying to find time to be very intentional with my family while I'm working. You need people that are like you in that space to just complain with, and get their ideas and see what they're doing. That's really healthy for anybody. And so the more people you can have like that in your life, the better.
[00:19:56] The other two pieces that have been really monumental to me have been the other two kinds of people that you have as well. One is a, is a mentor. Somebody that is a little bit better than you, or maybe a lot of it better than, you know, somebody that knows something that you don't, that's pulling you up into their level, and then people that you can reach down to and help and folks that aren't on your level. I kind of aspire to be like that. So I will always be a huge fan of coaching and mentoring. I've had. Enough money to buy a house in cash on coaching and mentoring. Like that's just the way that this goes. And I've gotten the value out of it because I'm always trying to grow, and I've been very blessed to find a ton of other bookkeeping professionals that are, have been on my level or are close to it that I can kind of surround myself with.
[00:20:42] And then the nature of the business, if you hire subcontractors, those people are probably not as good as you are, and you can really begin to nurture them. And a lot of our offices. And the team have nothing to do with client work and everything to do with Ben, I'm working for you and it's great. I'd really like my own clients. I have no idea how to start doing that. I'm really hung up on this thing. And you just having the capacity to pour into that person., And support them and kind of reach down and try to pull them up has been just so good for my soul. But all of those, yeah. You got to have the community, you got to have a mentor and then if you can find mentees, it's just good for you. It's just excellent. I'm a huge fan.
[00:21:17] Serena: Yeah. So like someone listening, you don't necessarily have to go and start a coaching business or like become a professional mentor. You can literally start with just one team member at a time when you hire someone, see their potential, and take them under your wing, like show them what, you know, it's super simple, the theory of it. Like you only need one of those and you will learn so much in the process of showing somebody how to do what you do or to think the way that you think it stretches you a lot, probably more than working with a mentor.
[00:21:52] Ben: Oh yeah. Just the act of showing up for somebody else, I think has given me more peace and clarity and confidence and enjoyment than hiring a mentor like ever. And you don't yeah, you hit it. It's like, you don't have to start a coaching. Like, don't start a coaching program. There's so much that goes into it. There's, there's a whole other level of doubt where it's like, okay, I'm about to tell people to raise their prices. And I haven't raised my prices in months. What am I? Right? Like, it's like, there's this whole other level of doubt and insecurity. It's like, this is the stuff that. I'm not doing it, but you should, or vice versa or whatever. Right. But it's so easy.
[00:22:30] I kind of started my own, like reach down minty stuff. Just with like local events. Like everybody talks about go to B&I's for the networking and the clients and all of that and go to your networking groups. I went, cause I didn't know anybody and one of the begin to talk to people and met great people that were visionaries and excited about their business and had no idea how to do anything. And it's like, Hey man, maybe you do this, maybe you do that. Maybe you think about this and here's what I'm doing. And here's what this looks like. And now those. Good friends of mine. And like they're helping me buy houses and fix houses. And they're ingrained in my life just because of that value exchange. And as a side benefit, anytime they know somebody that needs a bookkeeper, I'm the first person they think of.
[00:23:15] So it all just kind of blends together, but it really like if you show up with that servant heart of like, man, I'm just going to help people today. Like I'm not, I'm not handing out business cards. I'm not asking people for business. And find as many newbie business owners as I can, or many struggling business owners as I can, and just love them and tell them, here's kind of what I've seen. Maybe try this. Man, that's so hard. That's so awful. Do you want to get nachos after this? Like whatever it is showing up for people like that, it's good for you. It's good. It's good. All the way around. There's just so many boxes that it checks huge, huge proponent.
[00:23:48] Serena: Yeah, I agree. Where I think maybe we should talk about the dark side of this though.
[00:23:53] Ben: Oh, bring it. Yeah, for sure. Let's go.,
[00:23:55] Serena: Like at a certain point though, If you're not able to pay your own bills, pay your own team, pay yourself. You can't just give away your services for free. So there's that other flip side of the healthy balance, but hopefully you have a few clients that are paying you a decent amount. So that you have the capacity and you have the ability to help and kind of give a handout too. So I just like to We bookkeepers, we are bleeding hearts.
[00:24:25] Ben: Oh yeah. Oh no. And we are too nice. That is the number one thing I told the contractor recently, I was like, you could be great in this business. You could be really excellent. You have got to stop being so nice. Like you are assuming that you're going to be best friends with your clients and maybe you will. But you got to really let that go. And that is just prevalent, man. If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of other people. That's just the way that that goes. So there's gotta be a good balance there.
[00:24:51] Yeah. So very recently, one of my contractors came to me and was like, Hey, what do I do? And she knew about Built by Bookkeepers. She was like, do I need to get in your coaching program and pay you? Like, what do I need to do in order for you to help me? And I was willing to help this woman kind of get her stuff sorted. Because we had a relationship and I knew her and she was on she's on my team. Like I'm paying her to do bookkeeping for us. And, and it feels like I know her personally, we have that relationship. But it's like, I know that if I tell you this, you're going to take it seriously. And you almost didn't come ask me about this because you felt weird about this. So you are doing your utmost to honor my time. And because I know that you're not going to abuse me. I'm now an open book, like tell me what you need, I'm here for you. And so if there are folks that are looking for mentorship and stuff like that, and you're trying to figure out how to get into that space and how to find somebody above you, the best thing you can do is show up, be a person with them. Don't abuse them or their time, try to provide them a bunch of value and really respect where they're at. And let them know constantly. Right. Cause you know, I'll tell anybody anything if they're really plugged into, Hey yeah, I know you're busy.
[00:26:05] Serena: And I'm going to take your advice seriously and I'm going to implement like yeah.
[00:26:10] Ben: I'm not just, I'm not just asking you a bunch of questions because, oh, you're the guy, right? Like, oh, Serena, you know, so many things. Can you just tell me how all of this works now? No, I'm not going to do that.
[00:26:21] Serena: I need specific questions. I am a generator, I respond.
[00:26:26] Ben: Yeah. It's like, Hey, I'm really struggling with, by Legion. I really don't know how to get the next client. What are you doing right now that's working? Oh day all day, but if you just want me to like, be your Google machine. No. That's where that's where this stops.
[00:26:41] Serena: Yeah. So can we talk because there is an issue in our industry where like I've had people come to me that are just like, I've tried to get this information. Yeah. Other people who I thought were even my friends in our space. And they are like white knuckling, tight gripping the information that they have, and they don't want to share because they feel like I'm their competition. And so like, do you come across-- I mean, I feel like you're a lot like me and I'm like, I just couldn't even imagine doing that. Like I have, I give away leads to my students cause I'm like, I don't have capacity. Here you go. I couldn't imagine just like, hiding information that I knew could help other people cause I cannot possibly serve all these clients alone.
[00:27:24] Ben: Right? And I think it look, you and I think are very much on the same page. I send leads and receive leads from former employees and my direct competitors in the space. One of my direct competitors, his name is Dave Rice with REI bookkeepers. He does what we do. He's I think probably our size, if not, maybe a little bit bigger. And I got a lead from him yesterday, a great dude, probably gonna sign with us as a client. And I had an employee quit in the middle of a quarantine because she needed to go do her own thing. And we send each other referrals semi consistently. And so you're kind of knocking on a very particular tree, which is like, or knocking on a particular tree knocking on a particular door. They're all made of wood. That's fine. Which is like scarcity mindset, which is like, oh, I built this. So it has to be mine. You built nothing. None of us, like we spent hours in a chair. Yeah, sure. We've applied ourselves, but everything that we know you can find on the internet, like everything. And so why fight that when instead you can be really generous with that and really open with that. Dave and I have a great relationship, my former employee and I have a great relationship. Like, so as I was watching, built by bookkeepers, Alyssa Lang was like, dude, I'll give you everything. Like, what do you need? Let's go like let's rock.
[00:28:41] And for a minute there, like we had programs that were going to be named the same thing. And that's where she was like, she was like, Hey, this is weird. And I was so stressed about asking.
[00:28:52] It was like, dude, I don't, I don't care. Like I'm not here to step on anybody's toes. I mean, it's like, yeah, there's so much good that every single one of us can do that to get tied up in the competitiveness of it. It's just like, I don't, it's just so heavy on you personally. It's just, I don't have space for that man. Like I don't want to be tied up in that nonsense.
[00:29:10] Serena: Yeah. And it just breaks my heart when I hear those things. Because it's like, I don't know, it just really breaks my heart. Cause if they're actually friends and if you actually like want our profession to excel and help the clients, cause that's what we're all here to do. We're all here to make sure our clients are served. Like we can't possibly serve all of them ourselves. There's so many different industries and so many different, like, it's just crazy to me. So hopefully if you're listening and you struggle with whatever network you're in being very competitive. It's time to find a new group. And I think that group is built by bookkeepers, right?
[00:29:47] Ben: Yeah, man, I'll come in and tell you that you're doing a great job. Like it'd be my absolute pleasure. Will you just, yeah. There's no room for scarcity. There's so many people yeah. Find different people. If those are the people that you're hanging. There's just no reason to be that cutthroat. Yeah.
[00:30:02] Serena: It's just going to hold you back, honestly, because you become who you surround yourself with. So if you're around that, you're going to react in the same way and it's no good for anybody. So with that, I did have another question, a couple of notes I jotted down. I would love to hear what your vision was at the beginning versus now.
[00:30:21] Ben: Oh, sure. Yes. When I started bookkeeping, the vision was I was going to sign a couple of clients, make a little bit of money on the weekends to save up for a down payment on a house. That was over five years ago. I'm buying said house like next week. It's very exciting. I'm super excited about it, but I hit that down payment number a long time ago. And the vision just continued to change for a minute it was, Hey, I'm trying to buy a house, let's start a little side hustle. It became, man. I really hate working nights and weekends and not being able to spend time with my family because I've got to go clock in at someone else's business. And so how can I quit probably too soon in my business. How can I quit my day job and do this full time? It became, how can I get all my time back now that I have this thing? So I can be really present with those people. And now it's kinda become, how can I really embrace a lot of mission and still find excitement, you know?
[00:31:18] And so it absolutely does continue to evolve and change as you go. And it's not always super concrete either. You know, most times easiest way to set a vision. It'd to be like, what, what do I hate right now? Right? It's not necessarily looking for like the, oh, what would be great? Like "what if it were easy" is an excellent question to put yourself in the right head space for motivation. I kinda like playing with the dark side a little bit.
[00:31:44] So there's a popular coaching technique where they're like, Hey, write your vision for you in the next year. Write a letter to yourself where it's like, oh, Ben, I'm so happy that we did all these things because now we have all of these things, right? That's the popular version of that. That's kind of like the light side of this, the dark side of this is write a letter set in the future. But you're not writing it to yourself about all the cool things that you did. You're writing it to the people you love and care for and explaining to them why you failed them. Right. Hey, I'm so sorry that I can't make it to dance recital today because I never really grew the business the way that I intended to. And now it's basically a ball of chain and. You want to talk about motivation?
[00:32:30] If you embrace that, it's like, and it's not bad if you just to kind of embrace the pain sometime. Yeah. We get so comfortable that you kinda got a, and this is, this is not an original idea. The, but the, if you really kind of want to experience this, Tony Robbins does a really excellent exercise called the Dickens method, which is based off of the ghost of Christmas future from Charles Dickens, A Christmas Story. And it's exactly like that. Like put yourself through that mental exercise of like, if I stay on this path right now, where will I be and how awful is it going to be and what do I need to change right now so that I never get anywhere close to that? And that will get you up in the morning, dude, that's better than coffee. Like that'll make you move when you don't want to move. So I forget where we started, but this is where we landed on this.
[00:33:15] Serena: Visions and how they've evolved, because I know that I try to get people from the beginning, cause I work with people who are just starting bookkeeping businesses to make sure that you give yourself a plan so that it doesn't end up that way. Now I'm like, I think I need to implement that exercise. But to be able to like, have a vision and hold that vision and make decisions based on the vision that you have. But we're such perfectionists in this industry that people get really hung up on. I need to make sure the vision is perfect before I can set the plan. And it's like, that defeats the purpose. Just know it's going to change. And like you said, the vision right now this year might not be the same as next year or the year after that. It's going to continue to change. Just be okay with that. Also be okay with your clients. Never getting you what you need.
[00:33:59] Ben: Oh God. Yeah, let that ball go, dude. That's oh--
[00:34:04] Serena: So thank you for sharing that. And then you also mentioned real estate. So you're buying the house that you originally set out to buy, and that's really exciting. So congratulations. Are you also like investing in real estate because you work with real estate clients?
[00:34:23] Ben: Yeah. I have probably a million words on this. The original thought in starting the bookkeeping business was let's make down-payment money. And so the first down payment money that I made was supposed to be for a primary residence. And then the second down payment money I made would have been for rental property, number one, and so on and so forth. After working so closely with the industry and I have real estate coaches now. And the answer is, yes, I am looking for rental property, but I am looking for that only because I now have a business that doesn't run perfectly without me, but it'll get down the road without me being involved. And my business is infinitely better to me than any rental property would be for the next 10 years. And so if there are folks that got the shiny object syndrome when they're like, oh my gosh, what if I went and bought, bought this house in Tennessee and turned it into an Airbnb and it would be so great. And it might, it might be so cool, but it is so much work when you could instead apply all of that work and effort into growing what you have right now into something really awesome. And then go learn that thing, right? That's a huge patience when you're stuck in the middle of your growth in the business is the worst. It's so bad, but it's so important.
[00:35:42] Serena: There's a lot to be said with like, being able to limit your focus to one thing at a time. Like, that has probably been the biggest struggle with me growing two businesses is like, it splits your focus. So it's like, I have to allocate CEO time just for this one business and then CEO time dress for this one. And then like, it's crazy. Like it is taxing mentally.
[00:36:07] Ben: Yeah. And it's hard to turn it off. Yeah. You've got you forever have two priority lists. Right. And at a minimum you have one for each business and then your personal life and all that. It is like everybody that thinks that this will be super neat to be like totally vertically integrated 12 LLCs, ask somebody if that's as cool as they think that it is because it is not anybody with that is like, why would you do this to yourself? Make one great business and retire, get out.
[00:36:32] Serena: Yeah. Sell it and then use that to--
[00:36:36] Ben: Yeah. Or like I said, build it all the way to where it runs by itself. And then you can do the next thing. It's hard to grow two things at the same time. It's it's just difficult.
[00:36:46] Serena: Yeah, it is. It is a struggle. So with that while we're getting close to time, so I would love if you could. Give us kind of what you've been doing with Built by Bookkeepers and who it's for, who it's not for, and share how people can connect with you.
[00:37:02] Ben: Yeah. I want to be pretty, pretty clear on this, right? In no way, shape or form is, is Built by Bookkeepers a program where we will teach you how to start a bookkeeping business. I have zero desire to make any video about how to use QuickBooks Online. Like that's not-- honestly, I have zero desire to make any videos at all. And so if somebody is looking for, oh, I really need help getting this started. I am not the one. And I will tell you that upfront, it's like, Hey, you don't need me. You need one of these other programs. You need this very particular piece of advice. Come back to me when you hit these benchmarks, we could talk about this again, but right now the answer is no.
[00:37:40] And that's how our sales process works too. So if you skimmed to build by bookkeepers.com, fill out the things, do all the stuff. The first thing that you do, usually get an hour call with me where I will tell you. Probably no. Hey, you're not ready for me right now. Here's what you need to do. Call me back when you've gotten these done. If you are ready for me, then I'll be like, yeah, sure, come in. And it'll be great. Explain to the program, but that's the first thing that we do with our filter. It makes my life easier and it makes our group really hyper-focused.
[00:38:05] But what we do very specifically now we've covered what we don't do is really kind of an informal pieces. First this is not a video course. I've already kind of touched on this. There's no video content to watch. This is a live group program where we all get together for three hours on a zoom call and it's come and go, and you can do whatever you want in that timeframe. That's your time. But you show up with your problems and your action items and we help you sort through them. And it's right there. It's instant. There's no. Oh, go watch this two hour video for the 15 minutes of content that you need. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is right here, right now. And let's go implement.
[00:38:41] The second thing, we really try to focus on is that this is not a forever program either. So we coach in 90 day segments for the student. And so when we have our opening call with somebody kind of talk to them. If I feel like they're going to be a good fit, we more or less immediately start setting goals with them. Here's the kind of goal that you should be setting. Here's how you break it down into reasonable steps and let's get after it. And let's make it something that you're gonna achieve in the next 90 days. And then when you're done. Coaching is done. If you've hit your thing, if you'd like to come back again, we'd love to have you, but like, I don't want to sell people, things that are going to sit on a shelf and not get used.
[00:39:15] The third piece on this is that it's not really just the Ben Day Show. It's Built by Bookkeepers. The whole point is that it's a group environment. I, I kind of opened with this. It's like Lionshare doesn't do. I don't do payroll for my own employees. We hired that out. Right? Like don't ask me a sales tax question. I don't know anything about Avalara tax jar. I don't know anything about running a tax business. That's not me. I know a lot about very particular things. And so if we've got students that show up with questions that I can't answer, the great news is that it's a community of folks that are more or less on your level that may have already solved that problem and can give you those resources. So it's not just about me. The group piece is so important.
[00:39:55] And the last piece that's really important for us is that it is a group environment. Like it's a community that we're building and very short spurts. And so, like, I know as you're growing a bookkeeping business and in the beginning, all you want is a client or two clients or three clients. You really want that, that proof. And then once you get the three, it becomes five, it becomes 10 becomes 15. And all of a sudden you're drowning. Like, there's this feeling of like, how could I possibly take on anymore and live the life that I want?
[00:40:25] And so the fourth thing. For us is that while it is coaching and while it's highly accountable. And when you show up, I'm going to ask you if you did your things. And if you say, no, I'm going to ask you why not? The answer can always be, you know, family was crazy this week, or there's no excuse. I just missed it. Or I'm just busy or I don't know how to do this, or I overshot and we really try to meet that failure, because you are going to fail. Nobody gets all their action items done every time. Try to meet that failure with understanding and compassion and love and say, okay, how can we get you back on the horse and help you really get this thing done inside of this timeframe, and what does that look like?
[00:41:04] So again, there's zero video content. It's a 90 days, it's a group and it's highly accountable, but also very understanding to the life of a bookkeeper CEO, bookkeeping professional.
[00:41:15] Serena: Awesome. Yeah, it sounds incredible for some really high touch support. If you're wanting to get to that next level for sure.
[00:41:27] Ben: And thank you that's the whole idea is like, sometimes people just need someone to hold their hand and sell them an settlement itinerary. Right? This isn't school. There's no syllabus. What are you doing? Cool. How are you doing that? Great. Do you need any help? Yeah? Let's talk about it. And that's it. You show up and we help you and you go do it and then we celebrate with you or then we help you course-correct.
[00:41:45] And it's like when I think about this and my journey in the same way that it's like, Hey, I only hire folks that work 30 hours a week, so that I only have to work 30 hours a week and building that culture. I think if somebody had offered me something like this in 2019, I would have melted. I would have been like, this is exactly what I need. Which is why I've just wildly passionate about this. I think it's awesome. And I love it. So, yeah. And again, I can just continue to talk about this, so you really need to shut me up and we can transition out of here.
[00:42:19] Serena: All right. Well, where's the best place for people to connect with you? Which platform or is it email?
[00:42:25] Ben: Yeah. So if you want to learn more about Built by Bookkeepers, you can go to Built by Bookkeepers.com. We've got, or we're about to revamp some of the program that we've got over there. Make it more accessible to the folks that just need a little more upfront before they hop into coaching. And so we're in the process of doing that. That's on my CEO time. Built by Bookkeepers.
[00:42:46] If you want to learn more about me, stock me on the internet, you can find me everywhere. Lionshare Bookkeeping is probably the best place to see what we're doing on the bookkeeping side. That's, you know, a website, Facebook, Instagram, I've got a YouTube channel where you can see Ben Day with really excellent, like half grown quarantine beard there for a minute. It's. It is the sexiest. It is really good looking. But yeah, you can find Lionshare Bookkeeping pretty much anywhere on the internet.
[00:43:12] Serena: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on here. It was a blast, I'm sure. I hope if you were listening, you took notes. I took notes. Really great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast,
[00:43:24] Ben: Man, it is my pleasure. I love this. I love your podcast. I think you're doing excellent things. This was an absolute blast.
[00:43:30] Serena: Thank you. We'll talk to you soon.
[00:43:32] Ben: Thank you.
[00:43:33]